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Author Topic:   Insect diversity falsifies the worldwide flood.
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 148 (339780)
08-13-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Randy
08-29-2002 11:31 PM


The marine fossil argument is NOT on topic in this thread. Please revive an old one or start a new one. It appears there has been no recent focussed thread on this topic.
Another falsification of the worldwide flood myth is the diversity of insect life on earth. It is totally absurd to claim that all of the approximately 850,000 species of insects on earth are descended from those who survived the flood either on floating mats of vegetation or on the ark as accidental passengers as creationists claim these days.
This seems like a very asinine argument to me for several reasons. Not all insects that we have on earth today had to be alive in the antediluvian world. Case in point: There are many subspecies of canine, Dobermin, Chihuahua, Beagles, etc... All of these canines had a progenitor within its own kind. We could easily assume justifiably the same for ever specie/sub-specie relationship. Therefore, it was not neccesary to have Beagles onboard the Ark the because there were no Beagles around that time, however, there would have been its progenitor. That's why billions or millions of different types of insects would be a neccessity. Aside from all that, the argument your are presenting is one of incredulity based on speculation. But here is what we know from physical evidence: Marine fossils are found all over the world, in landlocked nations, and atop the highest mountain peaks. How is that marine life can be found on Mt. Everest, a 27 thousand foot tall peak in a lanlocked nation far, far away from any large bodies of water? Everest isn't the only one. On Mt. Ararat in modern-day Turkey, where the Ark was said to have come to rest, the same is found. Mt. Ararat is 17,000 feet high and nowhere remotely close to large bodies of water. Even my own experience, I have personally seen many marine fossils. Growing up, I used to find fossilized clam shells and whatnot all the time. But this was in Miami, Fl, which is only one foot about sea level. Evidence tells us that where I lived, it once was a swamp, likely part of the Everglades. This is explainable. But in the last place I lived, Flagstaff, AZ, we've found marine fossils. Flagstaff is 7,000 ft above sea level and its a landlocked state. And the places I mentioned are not the only ones. This phenomena is recorded all over the world. That's quite a feat for a world that never endured a massive Deluge, a Deluge that is recorded by many, many cultures.
What are the odds that all this physical evidence should defy so many long-held paradigms about the ancient world? One or two might be able to be explained as an anamoly due to massive erosion and subduction as result, but not all of them; especialy those nations so far from water and peaks so high off of the ground.
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : edit to add
Edited by AdminNosy, : Topic warning!

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Randy, posted 08-29-2002 11:31 PM Randy has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 148 (339812)
08-13-2006 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Randy
08-13-2006 2:04 PM


Re: Hypermacroevolution strikes again
When in doubt make up an ad-hoc non explanation.
You believe that time, space, and matter spontaneously generated out of absolute nothingness and lack zero empirical evidence of any transspecific evolution, yet you have the temerity to call Faith's explanation ad hoc? That's rich.
Since cicadas appear in the supposedly flood deposited fossil record in the Cretaceous I guess you have to postulate that something hypemicroevolved back to cicadas after the flood.
You do realize that we are thousands of times removed from an original copy right? The very first specimen was concievably in prime, genetic disposition, far more pure genetically than what we see now.
This whole hyperevolution nonsense is just totally silly and shows how desperate YECs are in the face of overwhelming scientfic evidence against their Bronze Age mythology. You invoke hyper-evolution of a totally different life cycle over a few thousand years when you think your myth requires it and deny evolution at a much lower level over a few million when you think it contradicts your mythology.

Marine fossils are NOT on topic here


All of your hypothesis is purely speculative based on incredulity. I have given you an empiracle example of a global flood with marine organisms found all over the world. How do you explain that? And when you do explain it, isn't that an ad hoc explanation?
Edited by AdminNosy, : No reason given.

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Randy, posted 08-13-2006 2:04 PM Randy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by AdminNosy, posted 08-13-2006 2:32 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 125 by Randy, posted 08-13-2006 2:49 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 127 by ringo, posted 08-13-2006 6:14 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 148 (339861)
08-13-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Randy
08-13-2006 2:49 PM


Re: Hypermacroevolution strikes again
As pointed out by the admin marine fossils in mountain sediments are not on topic here but Leonardo Divinci first realized that they are not evidence of a global flood. They are easily explained by modern geology while you have no chance of explaining insect diversity if the global flood is not a myth. I am sure there is at least one topic on this board on the multiple ways the fossil record falsifies the global flood so why don't you either post there or open an new thread. There are many people here quite capable of refuting that particular nonsense but it is not appropriate to respond to it further on this thread. The topic here is insect diversity and the inability of entire families of insects to survive a global flood on or off of the mythical ark.
Alright, marine life is OT to this particular debate. I will stop using that as a basis for my argument on this particular thread. But how is it an impossibility for insects? Only unclean animals came onboard in pairs of two, while clean animals came onboard in pairs of seven. As far as vegetation, seeds can remain on the surface and begin to germinate once in good soil after the waters recede.
"You shall take seven pairs of every clean animal with you, the male and his female. Of the animals that are not clean, take two, one male and one female." -Genesis 7:2
Actually 4,000 years is only 235 generations of 17 year cicadas not thousands. The claims about insects diversity arising over a few hundred years because the "original genome was more pure" is just nonsense and only shows that you don't understand genetics. How did cicadas just happen to evolve after the flood and also exist in the flood deposited fossil record?
What? First of all, I assume your argument stems from whether or not there was enough room on the Ark to house that many animals. Cicadas, I assume you would realize, are tiny creatures. So, even if there were mulitple Cicadidae, how would it present a problem? I assume you are also aware that cicadas have far more generations than mammals. I don't know where you are getting 235 generations, as if it presents the notion that Cicadidae only mate once in their lifetime. You also forget that there was no predation in the beginning. Aside from which, you seem to forget that a supernatural event precipitated all of the animals to come to Noah in the first place. You're telling me that God would some how be stiffled by this asinine but specious plea to begin with? I guess I'm not at all seeing where this presents a problem?

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Randy, posted 08-13-2006 2:49 PM Randy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Randy, posted 08-14-2006 5:51 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 136 by obvious Child, posted 08-25-2006 11:25 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 148 (339964)
08-14-2006 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Randy
08-14-2006 5:51 AM


Re: Hypermacroevolution strikes again
Then you didn't read the OP at all did you? It has nothing to do with room on the ark. Do you think there was room for a forest with living trees for the nymph stages of the cicadas to live in? Cicadas do mate only once in their lifetimes. The 17 year periodical cicadas only mate once every 17 years. I suggest you actually try to read the posts you are responding to.
First of all, most cicadas don't have a lifecycle where they are in their nymph stages for 17 years. Most are within 2-6 years. I see that you conveniently left that out. Secondly, this underground hibernation is to protect them from predators. In the antediluvian world there was no predation, hence, there was no fear of being eaten. Lastly, you seem to forget that Almighty God is in control here and that He couldn't have forgot about the disposition of the little 'ol Cicada.
I'll bet after you saw this article on a fundyatheist website you were elated. If this is the best argument against the Flood then that's just sad. Aside from which, there is far more tangible evidence to support the Flood than there is pure speculation against it. Seriously, this is an argument based on mere conjecture.

“If chance be the father of all flesh then disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear of, state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, youths go looting, bomb blasts school, it is but the sound of man worshipping his maker” -Steve Turner

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Randy, posted 08-14-2006 5:51 AM Randy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Randy, posted 08-14-2006 10:33 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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