2/3rds of Americans want creationism taught.

rantman:

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You want to say it's a manufactured controversy, fine, but it's over in terms of public opinion. The evolutionists lost.

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So one Pew poll settles the issue? So I guess you support pulling out of Irag immediately, given repeated poll results showing little support for our continued presence?Even if the Pew poll ended the game, sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for...Maybe scientists need to adopt the ID wedge approach. Perhaps it is time to have a scientific refutation presented in every religious studies class; heck, maybe it should be required in every church, temple, and mosque--after all, every taxpayer helps to subsidize those temples of ignorance: It's only fair. I'm not saying the Atheistic critique is settled truth, but there is a controvery: let's teach it.Or perhaps it is a state rights issue: Kansas can teach what it likes, Kansas grads can go to Kansas colleges, and Kansas patients and consumers can depend on Kansas science. We could stop 'em at the border when they head to either coast after the laying on of hands fails to shrink that tumor caused by the nonpollutant the enviro-radicals tried to create so much hysteria about.We haven't yet succeeded in stopping Believers from killing both other Believers and Nonbelievers in the name of God, and human sacrifice continued until not so long ago (less than a millenium) in many places.Evolution is only one battle, and ID is just a skirmish. Creationism is a speed bump on the road to full human realization: nasty enough now, but eventually just another Luddite footnote.Besides, how long can it take to present the Creationist/ID rebuttal?"I just can't believe that!""Ow! That makes my faith hurt!""Bad drawings! Bad!""But the Bible says yadda-yadda-yadda!"Whaddya think? Five minutes per semester? Or the biology teacher could carry a little angel doll, and every time s/he notes another piece of evidence for ToE, the doll could say, "I can't believe you guys don't see through this stuff!"

I tell you what. Even though you are arguing for ending separation of Church and State, I'd gladly voluntarily invite you to present evo arguments in a debate with creationists in churches and other places.You guys need to be honest. Show some kids the hooved canine-looking or rat-looking creature Pakicetus with a large graphic, and then show evos claiming it's a whale, in schools across the nation, and evos would be the laughingstock of the nation or at least the children.It would be good too because evos could then quit relying on overstatements, and if the evo argument has merit, they can win the trust back of people's trust they have lost, such as mine.

No, I'm pointing out that you are, and that ending that separation may have unexpected consequences for creationists...

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I'd gladly voluntarily invite you to present evo arguments in a debate with creationists in churches and other places.

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Oh, no--I want the church to hire scientists to do that!

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You guys need to be honest. Show some kids the hooved canine-looking or rat-looking creature Pakicetus with a large graphic, and then show evos claiming it's a whale, in schools across the nation, and evos would be the laughingstock of the nation or at least the children.

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Anyone would laugh at that cartoonish depiction--and that's the kind of distorted depiction that ID/creationism depends on.

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It would be good too because evos could then quit relying on overstatements, and if the evo argument has merit, they can win the trust back of people's trust they have lost, such as mine.

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Then you traded in a belief with strong evidential support for one with none.You're going downhill fast.

Ya, again. Appealing to the majority. You simply don't even considder that there are much deeper reasons for the given taxonomy, if you don't like it, that's fine. Your arguing from ignorance/disbelife.I find it telling that you didn't even bother to answer my ON TOPIC post at:http://EvC Forum: 2/3rds of Americans want creationism taught. -->EvC Forum: 2/3rds of Americans want creationism taught.

What post?

I linked to it. It was Message 23 MSG. 23I appologize in advance if you missed it.This message has been edited by AdminJar, 08-31-2005 08:44 PM

But here's the thing Yaro. If we start electing school board leaders that will put criticism of ToE into schools, you guys will howl, and some will resort to lawsuits.So your little argument via analogy doesn't hold up.We hire experts, that's true. We elect officials to govern our schools.

And why is this? The same reason that we would howl if we elected a surgeon general who proposed that bloodletting and leaches are a panacea for all aiglments. It's bunk.Promoting a bunk, unsupported theory, is the halmark of incompetance. And we would do right to howl at such a school board administrator.Fact is, THERE ARE NO EXPERTS WHO PROMOTE ID/CREATION. None. No one. Nadie. Zilch.No respectable scientist belives in ID/CRAETION.Now, you can go into an evil evolutionist conspiracy theory, but if you do that, I would like to you to address my other post as well. Where I said: So ya, how come?This message has been edited by Yaro, 08-31-2005 11:10 PM

Randman, I keep hearing you calling for critisisms of ToE to be taught in schools.I assume you are proposing that ID be taught in schools.Are you suggesting that the schools teach the "evidence" for ID? Can you give us ANY?It's not enough to say, Oh look heres a "flaw" in ToE. If you don't have anything to teach in it's place, you might as well be suggesting we take out math, but X = X, not some number.

Nuggin, teaching the facts about ToE is the first step into educating people over it. Right now, there is a lot of disinformatiom associated with how ToE is taught, the data used to present it, etc,...I would recommend presenting some of the arguments for ID and various creationist ideas, OEC and YEC, and encouraging students to further their own studies on the web.It's called education, not indoctrination, and it's something we should be doing.

Well, that covers the Christians pretty well.Should we start East and move West, or vice versa, in order to cover all the world's creation myths?

So, you're saying Creationists have theories but no evidence.In that case, are you willing to have ALL forms of Creationism taught? Babylonian? Egyptian? Souix?Each of these has just as much evidence.

It'd be more interesting if one of you actually engaged the points raised, but merely distorting my comments to try to bait me to a debate something I never even said isn't going to work.Maybe you can get Ned to ban me from these threads too, and you can go on and make your arguments, addressed to me, free from my ability to respond?

Who are you talking to in this last post?

u and omni