Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 13/65 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What does 'The Gospel' mean to you - in 200 words or less
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


(1)
Message 16 of 93 (539109)
12-13-2009 5:58 AM


The Gospel\; An abomination
I think the Gospels are a testimony to man's imagination, ignorance, and out and out evil.
The 4 anonymous gospels we use are just 4 of over 30 gospels in existence, these were handpicked to serve a specific purpose and have no magical origins.
The gospels clearly show many signs of editing and are rife with historical and textual errors, they were invented to support the messianic claims of a failed preacher called Jesus.
The propaganda and lies that can be found in the gospels is testimony to man's imagination and to the ignorance of the reader who thinks that the events narrated in them in some way resembles the truth. The texts themselves are extremely tedious, horrendously boring, and unhistorical. The obvious attempts by the unknown authors to try and make Jesus' life fit OT prophecy is laughable at best, the many prophecies ripped out of context, the 'prophecies' which are not even prophecies that were invented, and the fictional stories (e.g. Brababbas episode) have a more sinister side to them.
The authors of the Gospel probably had no idea of the horrors that their fairy tales would have on mankind, I think if they knew then they would not have written the majority of the texts.
The gospel has not been a blessing on mankind, it has, in fact, been an abomination. The lies made up by the authors of the gospel are responsible for some of the most horrific events in human history. The Jewish nation for example has been persecuted for centuries for rejecting the failed messiah Jesus. If people would take the time to study the Bible and the history of the times and places it was written in then they would realise that the Jews were quite correct in rejecting Jesus as He fulfilled no messianic prophecies and He was clearly not the Messiah that the Jews were and still are waiting on. The determination of the gospel writers to make the Jewish people into scapegoats for their failed messiah has resulted in many millions of these people being murdered. Of course there are many millions of other peoples who have been slaughtered in the name of Jesus and that just adds to the ignorance of the followers of the Gospel.
Then we come to ignorance. I think that when these books were written then the contents were not much different to the contents of other religions, but in this day and age when so much of the Bible has been demonstrated to be untrue and with the rise of the sciences there really is no excuse for viewing the Gospel as anything other than ancient propagana, camp fire tales, and legends.
The Gospel is amazing when you are 5 years old, but for adults to believe it is just ignorance and desperation.
Time to put the Gospel on the shelf of fiction where it belongs.

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2009 12:51 AM Brian has replied
 Message 76 by Iblis, posted 12-23-2009 4:01 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 39 of 93 (539374)
12-15-2009 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dawn Bertot
12-15-2009 12:51 AM


Re: The Gospel\; An abomination
Could you provide me with an example of how Jesus was a failed preacher?
Well we are still waiting ont he arrival of The Messiah, it's a difficult one to miss.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2009 12:51 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Peg, posted 12-16-2009 4:46 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 40 of 93 (539375)
12-15-2009 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Dawn Bertot
12-15-2009 11:42 AM


Re: The Gospel\; An abomination
The Bible also proves that Jesus could not have been The Messiah, strange that isn't it?
I don't think He saves the world in the NT either, I'd be interested to see where you get this idea from.
Edited by Brian, : added a q

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-15-2009 11:42 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-16-2009 1:00 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 44 of 93 (539384)
12-15-2009 1:49 PM


Now slagging of Lemmy really is blasphemy!

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 46 of 93 (539391)
12-15-2009 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by jaywill
12-15-2009 2:28 PM


Re: The Gospel\; An abomination
Maybe the last serious electric guitar player was Chuck Berry.
What about Eric 'God' Clapton?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by jaywill, posted 12-15-2009 2:28 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 52 of 93 (539457)
12-16-2009 3:00 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Dawn Bertot
12-16-2009 1:00 AM


Re: The Gospel: An abomination
Again, Why and how was jesus a failed preacher?
Did you not read message 39?
How could the Bible PROVE that Jesus was NOT this or that, or that he was not the Messiah, since according to you it cannot be trusted in the first place.
Quite easily.
We do not arrive at the conclusion that the Bible is untrustworthy by simply saying so, we arrive at this conclusion by studying the Bible and by studying ancient near eastern archaeology (including texts) to help place the Bible in a plausible historical background. It is only through critically analysing the Bible that we arrive at the conclusion that it is unreliable.
However, it doesn't matter if the Bible can be trusted or not in this particular matter as the internal evidence makes it impossible for Jesus to have been the Messiah. So, even on a purely textual basis, we have enough evidence to reject Jesus as the Messiah. Plus, of course, history also proves that Jesus was no Messiah, I certainly do not see Him listed as any King of Israel, He certainly wasn't of Davidic descent, and Israel was persecuted more after Jesus died that it is ludicrous to suggest that He was anything other than a failure.
The Bible isn't just one book, and when committees gathered the texts together and included the books that they wanted to they were not concerned about harmony of the texts, they were not concerned that the inclusion of lies and fairytales would undermine the reliability of the texts as this was the order of the day anyway, every religious texts was idealistic propaganda that included myths and legends. They were not writing for a critical audience, and it was only once that Europe was free from the persecution of the Church that any criticism of the Bible could take place.
Placing the Bible into an ancient near eastern context has thrown a great deal of light on the texts, and made it crystal clear that the majority of the texts are worthless for reconstructing an accurate past.
The attempts by the anonymous authors of the Gospels to torture the OT texts is so clear that it really doesn't matter if the Bible is 100% fiction, it still contains so many internal errors regarding Jesus' life that it becomes clear that they had to torture the OT texts for some reason, that reason being that Jesus was no Messiah.
Keep in mind as well that it has never been demonstrated that Jesus fulfilled any OT messianic prophecies and that the world is still waiting on the Messiah, thus Jesus was a failed preacher.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-16-2009 1:00 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by jaywill, posted 12-16-2009 4:43 AM Brian has not replied
 Message 58 by Peg, posted 12-16-2009 5:01 AM Brian has not replied
 Message 66 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-16-2009 1:24 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 61 of 93 (539489)
12-16-2009 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by AdminPD
12-16-2009 7:04 AM


Re: Topic Drift
I feel that these questions are legitimate as they are essentially asking me to explain my view of the Gospel. I am happy to defend the ill-informed replies that have been directed my way, but I would need your go ahead as I don't want to post on this thread if your decide this discussion should not continue.
I'm happy with whatever decision you make.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by AdminPD, posted 12-16-2009 7:04 AM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by AdminPD, posted 12-16-2009 12:57 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 69 of 93 (539555)
12-17-2009 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by AdminPD
12-16-2009 12:57 PM


Re: Topic Drift
Hi PD,
I think you are correct here, given past experiences this thread would probably end up discussing everything except what the Gospel means to an individual.
With that in mind I will knock up a wee post outlining why I think Jesus was a failure and submit it this evening (hopefully).
Thanks for considering my proposal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by AdminPD, posted 12-16-2009 12:57 PM AdminPD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-18-2009 11:33 AM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4988 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


(1)
Message 77 of 93 (540725)
12-28-2009 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Iblis
12-23-2009 4:01 PM


Re: The Gospel\; An abomination
Sorry about the delay in replying, despite the holiday I am still really busy here, I will get round to replying to your other posts as well, I haven’t forgotten about them.
How does this insight into the Gospel help you in your daily life?
I suppose the big difference today is the intellectual freedom.
But at my initial recognition of the Gospels as false history and Jesus not being who I thought He was I was genuinely stunned. I had been a xian for the best part of 20 years but I had never really questioned the Bible at all, I just took it, as many people do, as being the Word of God and the information within was more or less accurate. As a child I even believed the Noah narratives, but I think I recognized quite soon that this could not be an accurate historical event. But I was torn, when almost every piece of text you research turns out to be untrue then what you have believed to be true for a long time is difficult to let go of, especially when it is in regard to your faith, something that is central to your very being.
Does it make you more wary of confidence tricks, for example, and less likely to be hypnotized by recursive pseudo-logic?
What it made me more wary of was the invention of history by humans, and not only in regard to the Bible. It does equip you with the necessary tools to investigate historical events from a more or less objective viewpoint. I know complete objectivity is impossible, but one of the good things about going to uni is that your research skills are honed, lecturers do help you to recognize where you have not given a balanced approach. So, one of the main things it has done is to allow me to step back from any historical text and scrutinise it carefully, look at the supporting evidence, and then come to a conclusion that I find plausible and supportable.
When I initially decided to investigate the Bible I did not have the qualifications or the finances to be able to go to uni, so my initial research was a little bit limited in regard to sources. But I had decided at the age of 20 (for various personal reasons) to look at the Bible from a fresh perspective. I had decided that I was taking a fresh look at this collection of texts and it was not going to receive any special position, it was going to be treated like any other text.
One of the first things that surprised me was that every single Gospel is anonymous, and every single Old Testament book we have is also anonymous! I know this is no big deal now, but at the time I had not criticized the Bible in any way at all, it was not to be questioned. Other things followed, such as the out of context ‘prophecies’ the huge amount of contradictions, the reworking of many of the texts, the removal of books that had been included in earlier Bibles, the obvious failure of Jesus to keep the promises He made in the NT, such as the imminent kingdom. Although my initial research was very basic, when I eventually went to uni a whole new world of research was opened up, and it became so much clearer that I had made the correct decision.
I did much prefer studying the OT at uni, I found the NT to be very boring in comparison. I’ve always been into Egyptian history and archaeology and I have been lucky enough to study these subjects at uni too. What does become clear pretty quickly is that the Bible was not recording accurate history, and that is not really a problem for me now as most nations were recording exaggerated or false histories. What the recognition that the Gospel authors were recording false history and manipulating the OT did do was to awaken me to the wonderful area of the psyche of the authors in the distant past. It is so clear that whoever wrote the Gospels wrote them with the intention of changing the social and political world that they lived in, they were not interested in recording an accurate past they were interested in promoting Jesus as the catalyst to change. I find it interesting that when Jesus was supposed to have been performing all the works credited to Him by the Gospel authors He was able to be completely invisible in the historical record, no one else even knew He was there. Now given the remarkable events associated with His life I find that a bit too difficult to swallow. A 3 hour eclipse, the dead walking the streets, thousands upon thousands following Him and not a single contemporary account! Not even the Gospels are contemporary.
But it is the easiest thing in the world to sit with a collection of scriptures and invent a history about a human that fitted what the Jewish nation were waiting on. The Messiah had to be from David, let’s make a genealogy up for Him, and they invented several. The messiah had to be born in Bethlehem (although that may not be what Micah 5:2 is saying), so how do they get this Nazareth woman to Bethlehem, they invent a fictional census. The list goes on and on, and I wont bore you as I’m sure you’ve heard most of them before.
But there comes a time when a person has to say that enough is enough, any reasonable person surely has a limit to the intellectual contortions required to believe that Jesus was the messiah. The constant pathetic excuses, so childish and nave, should really not be required if Jesus was who the Gospels say He was. We should not have this ambiguity all the time about almost every single reference to Jesus. The non-stop contradictions, the historical inaccuracies, the ‘well when he said black He actually meant white’ reinterpretations that the gullible swallow up with glee are not a good basis upon which to base a faith.
Does it improve your social and ethical relationship with others, and if so, in what way?
I does make things a bit awkward at times, especially when I have been employed as a tutor at the Uni of Glasgow and I am currently teaching Religious, Moral, and Philosophical Studies at a high school in Scotland. My atheism does go down well with a lot of students and a lot of their parents, they see it as a refreshing approach to a subject that traditionally was not one that students looked forward to.
I do a lot to help others and I feel that this is more honest than anything I ever done as a xian as I am doing it out of caring for others and not from expecting a wee reward from God when I die.
I would say that I am slowly drifting away from my theology research at the moment, it does get repetitive, and once my archaeology masters is complete I may move into something in that area. Ideally a job that combines theology/archaeology would be desirable, perhaps on the origins of ancient Israel, but I will wait and see how things work out.
So, the value of the Gospel for me is that by studying them it demonstrates the ingenuity of man, the ability that man has to manipulate others into believing almost anything. It certainly helps a lot when investigating any historical event as you always have at the back of your mind that if the Gospel writers can invent a messiah then every other historical account cannot be taken at face value either. Everything has to be examined on its own merits, and no historical text should be given any different treatment regardless of what you would like it to say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Iblis, posted 12-23-2009 4:01 PM Iblis has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024