Wingnuts Praying for Obama's Death

I don't believe it's "America" the real estate property that he's objecting against, I believe (if I've understood his position) that his objection is against the administration/s that have caused the great global offenses.He should, as I do, hold a lot of contempt as well for the general public, who BLINDLY elects these officials to office. Continuously.Why should he leave this country because he objects to the way it is being run by the corrupt, greedy, war-mongering, extreme minority of wealthy industrialist? Who, not only control the media output of information, but also guild public opinion and the way people vote. We don't need this type of opinion silenced.Or is his opinion that much of a threat to the status quo that it needs to be silenced? What exactly do you mean by "US ways"?What "ways" are you refering to? Keeping in mind that YOU started a thread about wingnuts IN THE US, from the MAIN religious group, praying for Obama's death the same way Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq...So what "ways" exactly are specific to the "US" as a whole, that Dronesters opposes, but that you support?- Oni

Hi Dronester,One minor quibble with your use of the word America.Keep in mind that "America" the state doesn't act morally or immorally, it is not an abstract entity, which I feel your use of the word America in your posts makes it seem this way.People are the only moral agents. The representatives of the state act morally or immoral, not America. The reps were elected by the people, not America. So if there is anyone to blame, it begins and ends with individual people - not America.The issue of morality will always continue untill WE the people refuse to allow the corruption in Washington (which is not going to happen) so it makes no sense to argue what actions are moral or not. If the actions have not taken into consideration the repercussion on the PEOPLE of the country we are at war in, then NO ACTION has a moral basis.It's just self-righteous bullshit (covering up corruption) under the guise of morality.- Oni

Wud up Straggler, Well, for one, you could only assert that for democratic states - so, say in N. Korea, this is obviously not the case. So it is not an across the board accurate requirement to have support of the people.So we focus that assertion only on democratic states.If, within these democratic states, there are certain systems in place to guild public opinion (as was done with the invasion of Iraq) and, due to this propaganda, the people form their opinion/s on this basis, then sure, you can say "the people supported the Iraq invasion."But you would also have to be honest and say, "the people didn't have the proper information."So gov. officials took action and invaded Iraq, with the support of the American public. Yes. That is a fact. But it is also a fact that the people supported (as did Democrats in office, your country, other countries) because they were given false information. So who does the responsibility fall on?The function of propaganda is to do just that: falsly lead people to an opinion based on limited, or omitted, information. If you can cover-up the ways in which propaganda influences, and is distributed, and create and image of democracy, then you can always shift the blame on the people who voted and supported certain officials. Well for one, America didn't vote for Obama, the Electoral College did, and not unanimously - although by a wide margin.Individually, it would be impossible to guess the reason/s (of the many there is to choose from) for why each person voted for Obama - those who actually did anyway.To attribute the voting of Obama to a popular catch phrase, IMO, is to fall victim to the very system of deliberate propaganda that introduced the catch phrase to begin with.I guess I'm an optimist in that I believe/hope that people had a much more fact-based reason to vote for Obama than "change."Because really, a change from what? Bush? Well that was going to happen either way. Other than a change of person, there has been no other change, not only currently in place, but even proposed before the elections. All we had was an empty catch phrase that became a mantra.- Oni

You would think that people would know what it means, but as you can see in this thread both hooah and Hyro suspect Drone of being anti-America, when that is NOT even close to the truth.But because he throws the word "America" around the way he did, people get personally insulted.Take the statement: "America voted for Obama and change."While it is true that America voted for a change to the last admin, and for Obama, the statement does NOT actually represent the real opinion/s of Americans.For one, again, the Electoral College voted him in. Two, about 70million people voted for Obama (about 60 million voted McCain) that leaves a large amount of people who didn't vote at all.There's about 310 million people in the US, about 205 million are eligible to vote, about 130 million turned out to vote - about 70 million vote for Obama.So about 240 million people in the US either didn't vote for Obama, couldn't vote for him or voted against him - So how well does the statement: "America voted for Obama and change" hold up now?So I agree with your comment:

quote:

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these sorts of statements (nation X believes Y) are highly contextual and can thus be desperately misleading.

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That's it in a nutshell.- Oni

Absolutely not...Hitler gave great speeches.- Oni

I always imagined him being something pretty close to this:- Oni

Hey Dronester,I just meant that in this particular thread some of the folks here have taken you for being anti-American, or that you hate the US Government. When I get that you don't, at all, you just take issue with the way some of the business is conducted - as well you should take issue with it, as it's the job of every American to keep a close watch on it's representatives and call them out when they mess up.Some of the mindless middle folk would rather not have an opinon at all, and see your critical analysis of US policy as not worth the effort. Nor do they hold such contempt for the way business is conducted, so here again they don't have an opinion.What I find amusing is that while agreeing with you, they also call you anti-American - that's weird...?I think you use the word fine to describe what you mean, but I was just pointing out that being more specific in these threads may help others (of the mindless middle persuasion) understand you better and not lead to such a misunderstanding, or labelling you something that you are not.- Oni

Sorry for the late reply Straggler, Yeah this is true. Even I on occasion have found myself being personally insulted when (for example) a Cuban family member who just got to this country starts insulting it's ways. I don't know why, but it bothers me. It's like, I'm from here, so I can insult it, but you're not so fuck off with your opinion and thank every god in the sky that you're in this country instead of Cuba - or where ever else.It's like the "N" word. If you're black, have at it, use it any way you want (good or bad). But if you're not black, not "one of us," then refrain from using it.But I have no clue why this is. For as much as I point out it's faults, I fucking LOVE being American. I personally take great shame in having allowed the Bush family tha many terms in office and thus hurting the image of the US around the world. When I defend America, I do so because I KNOW for fact that it is a much better country than the media represents it as, and, a much better country than the Bush's made it seem to be.We have plenty of gun happy idiots, racists, bigots, gay-bashers, anti-evolutionist, etc... But that is the minority, and a very, very small minority at that. The media presents it differently because lunacy sells. And that too is what hurts this country very much - coporate media outlets.But, having served in the military, and, having immigrant parents who were able to come here and have what they would never have had under Castro, I will defend this country against anyone who misrepresents it, or physically taking up arms, if the situation called for it - that includes fighting those within the country who intend to destroy it politically.My parents and I owe a lot to this country, I guess that's where my "patriotism" comes from.- Oni