What is the I in ID?

How is man trying to design machines, do they not use CAD programs to use intelligent computer programs to design machines before making the product, (Intelligent Design), the reason the bible is so interesting is due to prophecy, God knows the future, CAD machines don't, however, like CAD machines designing a reproducible template for a particular function, God made the DNA template (genetic blueprint)to reproduce like kind creatures (male/female made he them) within the processes of natural selection), he did not need a CAD machine, cause he knew the end from the beginning, the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, he is the alpha and the omega, etc... kjv Rev 1:8, kjv Rev 19:10, He is the resurrection and the life, he that was dead is alive forevermore, etc...kjv Rev 1:18 Nothing that was created was created without him, etc... kjv John 1:3P.S. The fossil record came fully formed, multitudes of complete differences within just wing design, showing a common creator knowing, cause the fossil record shows these different designs came onto the fossil record scene fully formed, fully functional, the evidence doesn't support common ancestor, but the biblical portral of the seed concept, the male and female concept (natural selection), of like kinds reproducing like kind creatures, following the natural processes written within the book of Genesis, even the word genes came through the bibles mentioning of geneologies, etc...

It says the visible and invisible, we now are peering into the invisible things, it says he created all things visible and invisible, principalities, powers, and that he is before all things, and by him and for him all things exist.kjv Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:kjv Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.P.S. Genesis talks of the seed of the fruit trees in itself, kjv genesis 1:11. The seed is now known to be a template of genetic information, it talks of the seed of Issac kjv genesis 17:19, which would include the male and the female genetic information, its the seed thats the template, etc...it talks of the geneologies of the creatures and man, in fact the bible is full of the geneologies, before we understood what a gene was, it talks of how children from a non Jew mating a Jew(called a bastard), that the children would not be considered clean until the 10th generation (before they could marry within the congregation), something breeders of animals today feel is needed to breed out undesired genetic information, in pure breeds, etc...You also have how the woman was made from the man, so this is saying our common ancestor is Adam, and from his rib came Eve, coming forth from Adams genes, like Jesus was made of a woman, from the genes of Mary not Joesph, born out by the geneologies of Mary's line shown in the Gospel of St. Luke, compared to the geneologies of Joesph in the Gospel of St. Matthew. In fact in the epistle of Paul in Galatians 4:4 it confirms the Gospel of Luke that Jesus was made of a woman, which means with Adams rib Eve came from the man, and the seed of a woman, Jesus genes came from a woman (made a woman), its talking about some advanced cloning in the natural by the supernatural, making the geneologies through Nathan to King David as being the genetic information that was used to make the body of the Lord, though he was before the world, he being a spirit became clothed in flesh, and says in Revelations that he is of the root of David and of the bright and morning star(came from the Father went back to his Father)(true light of true light, etc...), interestingly his star moved in the sky before the wisemen coming to Worship the Lord, meaning it wasn't like Venus or anything, because it moved before the wisemen, leading them to Jesus and they worshipped him, etc... kjv St Matthew 2:9 It says in kjv St. Mark 1:1 that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. It says that he was before David, cause he is of the bright and morning star, etc...kjv Deu 23:2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.kjv Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David.
kjv Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
kjv Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
kjv Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?Jesus in Revelations makes it clear that he is of the root of David (meaning his genes came through David) and of the bright and morning star (his spirit of the bright and morning star)(God the Son)(True light of true light)(The Word), it says in the Gospel of John that he is the Word that he was before the world was, and that he became clothed in flesh, and that whosoever believeth in him gave he power to become sons of God even unto them that believe in his name, kjv St. John 1:12, which means born again of God, because it says born not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God (Abba Father) kjv St. John 1:13. Jesus is the baptiser of the Spirit, it was to save that he was sent by the Father, so that whosover believeth in him should be saved and not perish, kjv John 3:16, Jesus says he has the keys of death, and as we all know everyone dies, but the word says he has the keys of death and of hell, etc...P.S. It talks about the death of the body and of your eternal spirit, which is why he has the keys of death and of hell, so your spirit that resides within your body, at death to the believer goes up to be with the Lord(to behold his glory that was before the world was), but to the unbeliever, where will their immortal soul reside, etc...The bible says that he that was before all things holds the keys of hell, and of death, its about being an overcomer kjv Revelations 21:7, etc...

The Jews were to eat kosher foods, the holistic health movement, warns of the problems of heavy metals in bottom feeders, and how this can cause problems in replication problems, one reason ladies take multi-vitamens to have healthy babies, etc...P.S. The bible says any creature that believes in Christ will be saved, so that would include people that have mutation problems, in fact we probably all have some mutation problems given our diet, etc... I see kind via natural selection creating new species within kind, like wolfs, dogs same kind of creature different species via natural selection, mutations, genetic drifting all examples of micro-evolution, not the creation of a new kind of creature, etc... I agree that God created asexual creatures, earth worms, star fish, hydras, etc...No new kinds of creatures are being created outside natural selection, mutations, genetic drifting, etc...A double copied gene is not new information, its a flawed template, and via the bible if breeding with pure breds it would take up to ten generations to purge the damaged genes, from the template, etc...The Jews were considered Gods chosen people, so he was concerned about protecting the seed of Issac cause of his promise to Sarah and Abraham, the covenant to the promised lands to his seed, etc...

I don't know, but it does say he made us of the dust of the earth, talks of the water of life, but whats almosts as interesting as the amount of compressed information in the DNA molecule, is that in the cell they say that RNA can unzip this compressed DNA information almost instantly to create enzymes, etc...I would say some creatures make genetic clones of themselves, via budding, grafting, etc...The only genetic clones in heterosexual creatures is the genetic twins, etc...The justification is to keep the seed of Issac clean, and not unclean genetically, etc... The Jews were to marry from within the congregation, and cause of the diet, it was keeping the genes from double copying, mutations, it was keeping the seed of Issac clean, etc...
P.S. I feel that God was preserving the genetic information of Issac (kosher foods), because his covenant wasn't just to Issac but to his seed after him, kjv genesis 17:19, if it takes 10 generations to purge one offspring genetic information from just one mixed marriage, how long would inter marriage with other peoples destroy the genetic pool of Issacs genetic information, God gave his Word, not just to Issac but to his seed after him, if other nations ate unclean creatures that cause mutations, it would of affected the seed of Issac if the Jews were allowed to marry outside the congregation, etc...

I feel that no new kinds of creatures are being created, but new species within kind, meaning no common ancestor for all creatures, but different geneologies in respect to the different kinds of creatures, meaning its all about a common creator and not a common ancestor, etc...Fossil record concur that not enough evidence for transitional fossils between the kinds, etc... I have no problem with micro-evolution within kind, like ring species, but this does not mean its a new kind of creature, its just a part of the natural processes of natural selection, genetic drift, mutations, how new species within kind come into being, different species of cats, dogs, cattle, horses, etc...The insects have bounds set by God for their exo-skeletons not to grow, restricting their size, and these bounds set in place by God, over rides natural selection, mutation, and genetic drifting in respect to their size, its just another one of those evidences of Intelligent Design, etc...God said his creation was good, can one imagine how it would be, if the insect grew to the size of a house, by evolution, thank God, its all about a Common Creator, creating the different kinds, and because he made most creatures male and female, he insured natural selection would preserve the different kinds, if he would of made his creatures all asexual, natural selection wouldn't of played a factor, proving that natural selection is a biblical principle, survival of the fittest, the strongest passing on their genes, etc...P.S. I don't agree that different species qualifies as a new kind of creature, cause creatures only reproduce like kind creatures, etc...

It is kind of interesting, like the conversation of the Godhead, in genesis let us make man in our image, so all I can say is God made us in his image, God said (The Word?), and God made(The Father?)(Holy Ghost?), etc... kjv genesis 1:26 -27, etc...P.S. The Word to me is saying that the Godhead agreed to create man in his image, and all one needs to do is look in a mirror to see that this is true, not hunched over, like the ape, hands for tools, mind for creating, etc...It says God is a spirit, and the Lord clothed his spirit in flesh, Immanuel (God with us), alive forevermore kjv Rev 1:18 it talks about David saying the Lord said to my Lord, it says that Jesus is God the Son kjv Mark 1:1, it says he is the Word and God, kjv John 1:1, it says the Word was made flesh kjv John 1:14, he is alive forevermore kjv rev 1:18.

I'm not a theologian, many on this site much more knowledgeable about the OT, but heres how I see it, etc...Where did the Jews and non-Jews split from after Adam and Eve?
Abraham through Issac(miracle baby), then to Jacob was the lot of the inheritance (not Esau), of Issac's seed. It says somewhere that when the Lord divided the inheritance of the earth, the land between the Great river Euphrates and the Great River of Eygpt was the Lords and the Lord said that Jacob was the Lords portion.If descended from the same genetic information, why was one clean and the other unclean?Jacob married (Rachael and Leah) daughters of Leban the brother of Jacobs mother. Israel being the Name given to Jacob, and his children became the 12 tribes of Israel. The 12 tribes ate mineral rich foods, all the while they were in Eygpt keeping the gene pools from having accumulative mutations, that the other gentiles were accumulating due to diets of animals that were considered unclean, if heavy metals are in certain animals that eat these unclean heavy metal accumulators, it would cause accumulative mutations, that God wouldn't want to be a part of the genetic gene pool of the seed of his chosen people the 12 tribes of Israel.If descendants of Isaac only mated with each other, wasn't that inbreeding/incest?It wasn't considered incest, to marry close kin, though Moses wrote down laws, defining what was acceptable, but after having the 12 tribes, they moved to Eygpt because of Joesph in the seven years of plenty and famine, and the 12 tribes ate foods rich in minerals grown from the silt run off from the mountains in the Nile annual spring floods, garlic, vegetables, because diet affects mutations, you have the 12 tribes remaining in Eygpt for hundreds of years multiplying, and somewhere becoming slaves so their seed was preserved with a good diet, while it was suseptible to inbreeding, this diet helped natural selection to be a positive influence to genetic information of Issac seed, etc... When the Exodus happened, and they (the seed of Issac) took possession of the promised lands, it was only then that they were told to let a field to be fallow one year in seven, to replentish the minerals, this wasn't necessary in Eygpt cause of the annual spring contribution of mineral rich silt mountain runoff flooding the soil each year. These silts are being contained today behind the Aswan dam, causing the need of fertilizers which was not necessary in Israel (the 12 tribes) when they were sojourning and in captivity within Egypt.

I agree there are certain situations that it would be extremely hard to define kind and species, though lots of well defined different kinds, cattle, insects, birds, reptiles, fish, whales, bats, though certain kinds might appear to be related species, where chromosome numbers and genetic blueprinting will help define kind, don't see the chimp created in the image of God, though claudistic similarities suggest a common creator. Perhaps where kinds and species appear similar, we can look at similarities suggesting a common creator, like the different kinds of cattle, the different kinds of insects, the different kinds of fish, its obvious they have a different blueprint design.P.S. Its obvious cattle, insects, birds, and fish have not a common ancestor.Your arms are too short to be a knuckle walker. It will be interesting once they map the chimps DNA blueprint to see how similar the DNA blueprinting acutally is, not sure what to make of your garbage genetic information, perhaps its something we just don't know as of yet.This message has been edited by whatever, 06-21-2004 04:08 AM

The ightheosaur (? spelling) is a reptile that swims, yet its shape was similar to the dolphin, yet its obvious they are two different kinds of creatures, the bat that flys has a totally different wing than has a bird, but these cladistic similarities only show its a common creator, the dragonfly wing is totally a different design, though having a wing doesn't suggest a common ancestor, but a common creator. The bat flying in the heavens using sonar, makes it share a cladistic similarity with the dophin, but no transitional fossils linking the two, though the fossil record shows bats existed within the fossil record. Its the lack of the fossil record linking the two, in that these creatures of obvious different kinds, show evidence they were created by a common designer, and when looking at the chromosomal evidence it becomes apparent they are different kinds, having different chromosome numbers. It not easy for creatures with different chromosome numbers to reproduce, though the mule does arise between the donkey and the horse, you have evidence that creatures of like kind do at times show a limited ability to beable to reproduce, but the obvious different kinds are not reproducing outside of kind, and the fossil record concur, its not a common ancestor, or we would have all kinds of transitional fossils between say the bat and the dolphin, and this is not the case. The absense of transitional evidences but questionable interpretativeness too me suggest its a common creator, the bible says he created the cattle, so similarities between the cattle is simply because of the creator. Cladistic similarities show no transitional evidences between the obvious different kinds, and the tasmaninan wolf, only shows a common creator, unless you can prove the genetic information supports a common ancestor, meaning cladistic similarities can be interpreted more correctly to be evidence supporting a common creator, cause the genetic similarities are different, chromosome numbers, God showing he can make similar designs using different genetic blueprints, from the different kinds, like mammals that can fly, reptiles that used to fly, Whales that are mammals that swim, but shaped for the water, showing intelligent design, like the igtheosaurs, reptiles shaped like the dolphin but different genetically more evidence about the common designer, because your fossil record is interestingly missing all the transitional fossils that should be connecting some of the obvious different kinds, insects, fish, birds, mammals, reptiles, etc... It is interesting that the bible infers that the serpents used to fly, until God took away their wings for their part in decieving Eve, and that there is fossil evidence supporting this event, reptiles with feathers, or some such fossil, but you don't see serpents today with wings.

What they couldn't find within the fossil record, they explain in cladistic similarities, so if a bat has a wing too them it means a common ancestor, too me it only means we have a creator that was able to design a mammal to beable to fly, and the fossil record concurs that bats are in the fossil record without transitional fossils linking them to the birds by a common ancestor. The fossil record shows the creatures like the bat didn't evolve, but came into the fossil record fully formed, though they might of evolved into new species within kind, they have not evolved outside of their kind, if they would of done so, then that would of supported a common ancestor, as is it all support the common creator senerio.

With the lack of fossil evidence to disfute the bible creating the characters (separate clads) separately, it interestingly supporting a common creator, verses the common ancestor. It might well be the common ancestor is more like the different species within kind, and the different kinds is the separate clads that arose via the common creator.

He did, within the vegetarian diet, Adam and Eve were in a garden, the Jews in Egypt ate primarily vegetables, and after the Exodus when meats became available, God gave his chosen people them rules on the what creatures were considered clean and unclean. The template is stable, if one watches what one eats, etc... If you want a simple diet, try the daniel diet for ten days, pulse (beans) and mineral water, don't eat lobster, shrimp, clams, catfish, shark, etc...however once your offspring develop a genetic disease cause you ate shrimp, clams, lobster, and all those other unclean creatures in exotic foods, don't blame God, cause he said these creatures are unclean to eat, and too me is possibly the primary reason the gentiles were considered unclean for marriage within the Jewish congregation, cause genetic information is being lost due to these genetic mistakes, copying mistakes and God was about preserving the seed of Issac.Heavy metals compromise not your genetics but your offsprings, however, the heavy metal intake can compromise your health cause its accumultive and it displaces (kicks out) beneficial elements from the cells, affecting how these intelligent designed bio loops like enzyme systems function, etc...P.S. If you have a bad back, support you lower lumbar, I use a plastic mountain dew bottle, when driving, use a small cushion when sleeping, and it makes a big difference, it is one of those little things you can try, sometimes my back feels like its going to break, so I just use a lower support whenever, sitting, or sleeping, think as one gets older the water fluid levels in the ligaments are not supporting the lower lumbar, but I have a damaged back but it workin for me, but its like believed pre-flood, the airpressure was greater due to the believed water canopy causing the celluar water levels to be greater, supporting the ligaments supporting the lower lumbar, the reason its believed man lived longer, pre-flood, cause they were not stewing in their own celluar wastes, something to do with osmosis, and the surface tension of water, in respect to the lipid celluar membrane, etc...

The biblical kind includes the subspecies, our common ancestor is Adam and Eve, we have different races, but one common ancestor, they believe the wolf is the common ancestor to the dog, and inbreeding caused the many different subspecies of dogs, means their common ancestor from the origin is the wolf. It might well be the sea perch is the source kind of the freshwater perch, the walleye, meaning the same kind of fish, different species within kind.I see the wolf being created by God, and that the dog a subspecies to the wolf, making the wolf the common ancestor to the dog, etc...I don't really know much about cladistic evolution, but on the surface it makes sense, its about both a common creator and a common ancestor, because God made his creatures to diversify via natural selection, inbreeding, mutations, genetic drifting, so like the ring species gulls, have a common gull ancestor, so they are all the same kind of creature, just different species within kind. I see cladistic characteristics supporting in part a common creator, and the common ancestors to the various kinds of creatures subspecies, etc...P.S. When you say you don't see different kinds, its obvious you have obvious different kinds of creatures, whats not so obvious is the different kinds of cattle, the different kinds of fish, but this all makes sense via the common creator, and subspecies by the common ancestors from the source created kinds. When Cladistic characteristic get into the genetic information minus what you call garbage genes (perhaps those garbage genes will be an important in tracking common ancestors?)(they say they can tell who is a levite just by their genes), it should become apparent that we all have a common creator, and that creatures branched out from their source kinds, but the subspecies are actually of the same biblical kind, like some of the ring species that can not breed anymore, cause of genetic problems within the gene pool from one location to another, kind of interesting that the gull species have this problem cause they being an unclean creature, suggest that mutations are happening, and how interesting it was that the herford cattle breeding with the longhorn cattle a subspecies, without any problem, perhaps diet really plays a part in genetic mutations, it would seem the longhorns were the recessive cause the herferd bred true, and almost bred out the longhorn breed.

pink sasquatch, I thought for red meat to be kosher they were required to press all the red blood out of the meat, think its ok to eat some meat, but have nothing against eating meat other than the iron, hormones in the blood thats not being pressed out of the meat makes it not kosher.I'm not sure about your mutatagens in the meats, if this is related to the unpressed blood, etc...P.S. Someone I knew combined sports medicine (cushion to support lower lumbar when sleeping, driving, etc...) with taking a weight lifting substance called Creatine Monohydrate, they got a loading phase, and a maintance phase for weight lifting, the interesting reason he took up weight lifting was that this substances pumps up ligaments with water, that was supporting his lower lumbar, sacrum joints, if your a vegetarian, and feel your body is a bit dehydrated, you might research the loading and maintaince phases of this combined with supporting the lower lumbar to see if this helps plump up your ligaments to support the lower back. I used to golf with a doctor, who told me if I try this to be cautious cause if one overdoes this it can increase the ammonia in the blood and affect the brain, so be cautious. He took it with fruit juice, think if I remember the loading phase was for 5 days, then you back way off (a lot less every other day or so when weight lifting), so not to overload the body, but just maintain a certain level to hydrate the muscles/ligaments, etc...Page not found – The Water Cure

Ned, We were talking about how come God designed man's DNA template to be suseptible to mutations by diet, I explained God in the beginning that Adam and Eve were vegetarians, but when they were cast out of the garden they ate meat, but even then before Moses law, back in the creatures of the ark, it called the creatures clean or unclean creatures. It is interesting that God gave the Hebrews the kosher diet, and even today, the only thing that comes close is the holistic movement, showing that this diet was intelligently designed, cause how could the sheepherders know that eating the blood would be detrimental to ones health, or the eating of shell fish would be detrimental to ones health cause the cells couldn't purge the heavy metals from the body, etc... The bible is still the standard, the Hebrews were healthy cause of the biblical standards contained within Gods Words. The bible show it was not written by sheepherders but the Words are Gods Words cause of the wisdom contained came from an intelligence that knew, what man didn't know, these words from the bible came from God, for Gods wisdom is greater than mans.jar, The glaciers testify that the waters had high levels of anti-oxidants, that froze up in the Hunza mountain area, suggesting according to Patrick Flanagan, that the surface tension of these waters is less than the suface tension of water because of the anti-oxidant nano-colloidal particles, so too me, making this little leap of faith, it might well be that the waters pre-flood and for several hundred years after the flood were charged with these charged particles, allowing heavy metals to be purged from the cells, meaning that pre-flood one could of ate any animal, but our life span is not all that long today, some like Patrick Flagan believe in part due to the surface tension of water, as one ages the cell simply can not keep hydrated, and the cells are left stewing within their own celluar wastes, cause the celluar pumps suction is compromised by the surface tension of water, etc...http://www.cybertown.com/slowaging2.htmlThis message has been edited by whatever, 06-22-2004 11:43 PM