Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,916 Year: 4,173/9,624 Month: 1,044/974 Week: 3/368 Day: 3/11 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is the I in ID?
mark24
Member (Idle past 5226 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 29 of 165 (117039)
06-21-2004 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by johnfolton
06-21-2004 4:58 AM


Whatever,
though claudistic similarities suggest a common creator.
How can you say this when you say....
P.S. Its obvious cattle, insects, birds, and fish have not a common ancestor.
When it's actually obvious that cladistics suggests a common ancestor for the above?
I would also like to know how you can infer a creator from cladistic analyses when it shows the branching of organismal groups as per any evolutionary scenario?
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by johnfolton, posted 06-21-2004 4:58 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by johnfolton, posted 06-21-2004 11:29 AM mark24 has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5226 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 33 of 165 (117093)
06-21-2004 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by johnfolton
06-21-2004 11:29 AM


Whatever,
The ightheosaur (? spelling) is a reptile that swims, yet its shape was similar to the dolphin, yet its obvious they are two different kinds of creatures, the bat that flys has a totally different wing than has a bird, but these cladistic similarities only show its a common creator, the dragonfly wing is totally a different design, though having a wing doesn't suggest a common ancestor, but a common creator.
What you are describing are homoplastic characters. Cladistics is able to tell this because cladistics will infer the most parsimonious cladogram with insects, bats, & birds in separate clades, same with whales, ichthyosaurs, & fish. This means the characters arose separately, rather than by dint of common descent.
How does this show positively common creation?
Your argument seems to rest on the assumption that wings etc (that are morphologically distinct in any case) cannot evolve more than once.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by johnfolton, posted 06-21-2004 11:29 AM johnfolton has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by johnfolton, posted 06-21-2004 12:05 PM mark24 has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5226 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 37 of 165 (117114)
06-21-2004 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by johnfolton
06-21-2004 12:05 PM


Whatever,
With the lack of fossil evidence to disfute the bible creating the characters (separate clads) separately, it interestingly supporting a common creator, verses the common ancestor. It might well be the common ancestor is more like the different species within kind, and the different kinds is the separate clads that arose via the common creator.
We're not talking about fossils, we're talking about cladistics. Now, tell me how cladistics shows common creation with reference to homoplasy.
If you want to talk about the fossil record & cladistics, I'll happily discuss it with you, just start a new thread. It's one of my favourite evidences of evolution.
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by johnfolton, posted 06-21-2004 12:05 PM johnfolton has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5226 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 45 of 165 (117420)
06-22-2004 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by johnfolton
06-22-2004 1:14 AM


Re: The biblical kinds include the subspecies!
Whatever,
I assume you have given up asserting cladistics supports the notion of a common creator, re. message 33?
When Cladistic characteristic get into the genetic information minus what you call garbage genes (perhaps those garbage genes will be an important in tracking common ancestors?)(they say they can tell who is a levite just by their genes), it should become apparent that we all have a common creator, and that creatures branched out from their source kinds, but the subspecies are actually of the same biblical kind, like some of the ring species that can not breed anymore, cause of genetic problems within the gene pool from one location to another, kind of interesting that the gull species have this problem cause they being an unclean creature...
Doesn't look like it, please show how cladistics supports a common creator with reference to homoplastic characters. This is the essence of your argument, but it seems to me there's a couple of steps missing.
Are you saying cladistics is able to show & identify kinds?
If so, how exactly?
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by johnfolton, posted 06-22-2004 1:14 AM johnfolton has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024