Has The Supernatural Hypothesis Failed?

Your watered down and simplistic rendition of the supernatural hypothes lacks many of the ramifications of the supernatural intelligent designer, the historical events and fulfilled Biblical prophecy.Now I know that this is a science forum, but if you intend to bring the supernatural into this discussion and yet disallow supernatural evidence, you're whistling in the wind.When science comes up with a sensible model for problems like, no outside of, no space and no time relative to the alleged singularity, I don't see how science can claim that the supernatural hypothesis has failed.Science has labored incessantly to create useful life and so far, failed, yet science thinks without all of these high tech labs and apparatus being utilized by highly trained intelligent scientists, happenstance eventually achieved useful and indeed, immensely complex life, rife with intelligence, and it allegedly did it with no labs, no apparatus, and no intelligent planner or designer to get it up and going and emerging into billions of various complex systems.So, no. The supernatural hypothes has not failed. It is very much alive and relevant.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

As for mutiverses, they might begin with what to do with alleged no outside of and no before space and time/tme relative to our universe. The idea of multiverses shoots down all of these crucial aspects of the alleged singularity.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

How can there be other universes if there's no outside of our own for space to exist? What could be between alleged multiverses other than more space? If there's space between stuff, it's all one universe, space being part and parcel of the universe.There's no possible model for alleged multiverses nor does the possibility make any sense.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

(paranthesis and embolding mine)So now, listen up, sheeples. Here's how they do the science. Concoct up a mathmatical numbers game, ignore the observable laws of the universe and go with it for the multiple universe thingy. ABAKADABRA-DOO! IT'S SCIENCE!Mind you; don't ever call it faith, because secularists, you know have no faith. Remember? THEY DO THE NUMBERS GAME SCIENCE

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Heh. You like that term, predicting when it comes to supporting the secularist premisis to the secularistic hypothesis. However when successful predictions of events are verified by history and present observations, secularists disallow them all.Secularists are fine with discarding the observable laws of our universe so as to teach and propagate in academia. The likelihood of multiple universes defys the only observable laws we know, that of our universe.Yet you deny that a tiny nation of people dispersed globally after nearly two thousand years, returning to become a nation, having not being integrated into the nationalities of the host nations, is significant. You have the audacity to deduce that the supernatural hypothesis has failed, all the while denying every bit of the evidence already posted in the EvC archives which is supportive to the supernatural hypothesis.You secularists blatantly discard and deny the Exodus evidence cited, including aired videos, yet your secularist marine explorers decline to do their own research in the region so as to either debunk or verify the evidence presented.If a jawbone or hipbone were discovered in the Nuweiba Aqaba depths which may contribute to the ToE, rest assured, their research ships and divers would be on it like piranha killer fish on a chunk of meat. Edited by Buzsaw, : reword statements

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Jones, when the math defys the foundational laws of physics observable in our universe, count me out. I go with the observable laws, observable fulfilled predictions, verifiable historical records and data like that.Magicians, hucksters, gamblers, extortionists and the like are more into numbers games.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Because it appears that the math, which, as I understand what was alleged, is supportive to the multiple universe hypothesis which BB science ascribes to.My response related to the claim that the laws of physics observed in our universe may not apply to other universes.The problem still remains that more universes imply an outside of our universe and that there is a between universes. Imo, applying unknown laws of physics to explain that problem is even more absurd than explaining the supernatural hypothesis. There is a lot more sensible evidence for the a higher level of intelligence than that of humans than for the multiple uiverse claim.If anything has failed, it's the multiple universe hypothesis; not the supernatural.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Thanks, Bikerman, for responding in depth. This site is a classic example of length secularist science goes to in order to circumvent intelligent design and the ultra-high intelligent creator who planned and desigened it all.What I see in a read of this sight is, like a kid trying to explain his way out of the missing cookies in the cookie jar goes to great lenght to concoct up a believable aliby as to why cookies are missing in lieu of simply stating concisely why the cookies are missing.When secular science can't come up with a logical and sensible reason for alibis to explain away intelligent design and the supernatural it's MO is to make their explanation so complicated, and mystical that even they (as is the case in this site) must talk in terms of probabilities, multiple possibilities, unrealistic dimensions, concocted up math, negative gravity effecting energy popping up from nothing and nonsense (I say nonsense because they as much as admit so) like that.Yet they have the audacity to call multiverses and string theories when, in fact, there's no model or ability to predict from these alleged theories. Man, if a creationist dares alude to anything , I say anything, smacking of a higher intelligente capable of designing and creating complex things five or six members are right there to object.I don't care if you have 4D, 10D or 11D layers, bubbles or whatever multiverses, like 3D, there is a separation known as a between. I'll never be convinced that I must toss out of my thinking all logic and reason so as to become scientific. I call that mysticism, magic, delusional and impossible.I maintain that the supernatural has far less evidence of failure than these alleged theories which scientists argue, debate and for the most part have little understanding of themselves. Richard Feynman as much as admitted that he doesn't fully understand a lot of what he believes himself, including string theory.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

That's because secular science has never made any attempt whatsoever to test supernatural phenomena. You, along with most secularists do not understand the basics of the supernatural phenomena which exists. You people chide me for not getting myself programmed into what you are convinced to be truth. By the same token, you appear to have a fobia about anything pertaining to the possibility of the supernatural.Predictions of supernatural phenomena predicted thousands of years ago have been tested by fulfillement. On the otherhand predictions of science have only been ongoing to any significant extent for the past century. When they begin to fail, science simply changes modifys and updates with ever more complex hypotheses, understandable by relative few elites and defying the laws, dimensions and logic of what we observe and experience here in our universe. By the same token I can argue that secular science wants an explanation of supernatural phenomenon, without being prepared to test and research evidence of supernatural phenomenon Heh! Why do you think that the only level of intelligence in the universe should be simply explicable relative to a tiny speck/planet in one of billions of galexies, each having billions of suns/stars?For sure, we can agree that anything can be complicated to the ignorant. I regard your ignorance and that of most secularists equally as you regard mine relative to physics.The question is has the supernatural hypothesis failed? Imo, most of the participants of this thread are not qualified to answer that question, having devoted insufficient time, experience and study in testing the phenomena. Do you mean models like the supposedly non-3D pancake like stack of disc shaped bubbles, etc? How is that a viable model for something non-3D, when the model depicted (like pancakes) is 3D?Any models I have seen for the BB theory have been, in reality, 3D but physicists do the same thing. They flatten them all out to 2D or 4D, essenial making them flat illustrations on a piece of paper depicting what they believe in their heads; anything to obfuscate reality so as to educate secularize the sheeple. Now, Bikerman, what applies to the goose applies to the gander. I've revised your allegation so as to apply it to why secularists think the supernatural phenomena has failed. And thus speaks the ignoramus through history. What thinking and logic? You display very little of either. You don't care. Those 3 words sum it up. You don't really want to learn because you are frightened that:
a) You are not capable of understanding
b) It might shake your current worldview
c) It makes you accountable to a higher intlligence/power
It isn't new - we see the same attitude in all recorded history, from the persecution of Socrates in Plato's account of the trial, Genesis fall of man, effected by Satan's deception, through the imposed ignorance of the medieval Church public education, and in the blind refusal to accept basic logic and realistic observable laws of physics from the secularists.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Buz the problem is not that you don't beleive the science, but that you totally fail to understand it and then make up a strawman version.[/qs]This is a blind assertion on your part. Dr. Jones. Please cite what in my response you think was a straman and why.Of course I don't believe the science. I've articulated why; that it's too far removed from reality, just as you people assert that the supernatural phenomenon is too far removed from what you consider reality. You people require me to specify while so much of your stuff is blind asserted yada about how ignorant Buzsaw is and that Buzsaw refuses to buy into the secularistic interpretation of observations.Your job is to specify things I've said about science methodology and to refute them in specificity. Your MO, to often, is to blindly assert that I have no understanding.

First off, it would be nice if you understood and applied the difference between "You are lying" and "You are mistaken."Perhaps, to be more accurate, I should not have said never, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In your list I see everything but Biblical stuff. I've long derided National Geographic's Robert Ballard and others because they appear to have no interest in falsifying or verifying the very significant evidence of the Exodus crossing site at Nuweiba Beach on the Gulf of Aqaba. There's a lot of debate on that in EvC's archives. Perhaps you would like to search in the archives or click my profile as it's in my profile history.To a person, the science buffs here at EvC are not studied on the remarkable Biblica prophecies, though, like you, they make weak attempts to refute what I cite.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're revealing your ignorance relative to the messianic prophecies. The Jesus stuff is not the most imperially significant of the fulfilled prophecies relative to fulfilled predictions in the Biblical record. The dispersement and end time restoration of Israel, the messianic nation chosen by Jehovah is more imperical, for example so far as the here and now fulfillments.The end time predictions relative to what is now the Islamic block of nations and their role as enemies of the restored nation of Israel is another. Those are just a few. I've been studiously into them and daily reading the Bible for over 60 years, since a teenager. I'm neither lying or mistaken. LOL on the theology that the monks teach. How much of the prophets did they apprise you on? If they knew and believed the Bible themselves, they would know that the Holy Father is in Heaven and not a sinful earth creature. Obviously they failed to apprise you on the messianic prophecies, etc.The Bible is not a simple book. One never masters it totally. I'm still studiously at it as an Olympian works out for the high prize. I have not arrived, so to speak. I've learned some things Biblically related from secularist members like you over the years here.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I don't think that criteria satisfies the theory of multiverses any more than it satisfies ,many aspects of the supernatural.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I don't think Bluejay's concern is with real life, eye visible predictions like everyday mundane gravity stuff, etc. Perhaps it's problems like biogenesis, BB, no outside of, properties of space, progression of complexity and order, etc that he has in mind.As to predictions, observations like real life in these modern times such as global gpvernment (UN) mark/number monetary technology, climate change, Mideast political phenomena relative to the restoration of Israel, etc, moral decay, rise of Islam nations against Israel, predicted thousands of years ago in the alleged designer's Holy Bible, are enough so as to afford an alternative explanation for observed phenomena than purely natural explanations.As a matter of fact, the natural hypotheses are the Johnny-come-lately alternative ones, considering that nearly all human cultures in history have been religious, applying a supernatural perspective.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Barbara. What the word aludes to is phenomena indicative of a level of intelligence above that of human creatures. From a cosmological perspective, it is no more mysterious than other complex scientific perspectives acclaimed to have evidence
derived from mathmatical calculations.But we do have supportive evidence for the supernatural hypothesis, whether or not secularists will acknowledge it when presented.Which is more imperical: debatable predictions derived from quantum and string theory or historically verified fulfilled supernatural/higher intelligence predictions written thousands of years before the fact?Based on real life, eyeball observations, order to chaos is the norm whereas chaos to order is not the norm. We can look at a highly complex city and confidently predict that, abandoned by working intelligent beings and left to itself, it will deterioriate into chaotic rubble in a relatively short time. Relative to evidence, this model is supportive to the supernatural ID hypothesis. Edited by Buzsaw, : spelling

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.