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Author Topic:   Big Bang Theory Supports a Belief in the Universe Designer or Creator God
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 16 of 317 (640033)
11-07-2011 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by IamJoseph
11-06-2011 10:49 PM


If the universe began 13B years ago, it means it is finite.
Just because the Big Bang was 13B years ago doesn't mean that the Universe began at that point.
The Universe as it is now could be one of an infinite series Universes bursting forth in a Big Bang, expanding until heat death eventually shatters all the atoms into nothingness followed by a new Big Bang

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by IamJoseph, posted 11-06-2011 10:49 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by designtheorist, posted 11-07-2011 1:54 AM Nuggin has replied
 Message 31 by IamJoseph, posted 11-07-2011 2:33 AM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 29 of 317 (640048)
11-07-2011 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by designtheorist
11-07-2011 1:54 AM


Re: Reply to Nuggin
In some circles, the cosmology you are describing is known as Big Bounce Theory. While it had some important supporters at one time, it has largely fallen from favor
I'm not talking about Bounce.
Bounce would require contractions and if you look at my post, I don't talk about contraction.
I'm saying that once everything has been completely torn apart down to the subatomic level by expansion, the "end" Universe will be indistinguishable from the "start" at or before the big bang.
We talk about an expansion of space/time, but space/time only exists so long as there are detectable objects within "space/time".
An "empty" Universe lacks "space/time".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by designtheorist, posted 11-07-2011 1:54 AM designtheorist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by designtheorist, posted 11-07-2011 8:55 PM Nuggin has replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 30 of 317 (640049)
11-07-2011 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by IamJoseph
11-07-2011 2:21 AM


Re: What beginning?
The universe is finite [100% so]; it was not infinite 10 seconds ago - it is, and has been, expanding in a compound excelleration.
You don't have a firm grasp of what the term "infinite" means.
The series of whole numbers is infinite.
It goes on FOREVER.
It, however, has a start point.
It also contains differences. The number 2 is different than the number 3.
The Universe can have a start point and can contain differences and still be infinite.

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 Message 28 by IamJoseph, posted 11-07-2011 2:21 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 38 of 317 (640072)
11-07-2011 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by IamJoseph
11-07-2011 2:33 AM


A finite cannot contain an infinite. Science #101.
And since the Universe is an endless series, it is not finite.
Science 001.
The case in this thread is already vindicated the universe is finite,
Wrong. You've declared that the universe if finite based on criteria that you've made up.
We've given you examples of things which are infinite which you have not addressed. Your criticisms of the Universe are no more valid than criticisms of number sequences.
IMHO, there can be only one potential, possible exception: if another realm does exist, it will not contain anything which is already contained in this universe; nothing physical or corporeal. Thus none here would be able to percieve it.
That makes your religion invalid, you realize that right?

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 Message 31 by IamJoseph, posted 11-07-2011 2:33 AM IamJoseph has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by frako, posted 11-07-2011 8:08 AM Nuggin has not replied

  
Nuggin
Member (Idle past 2521 days)
Posts: 2965
From: Los Angeles, CA USA
Joined: 08-09-2005


Message 90 of 317 (640180)
11-07-2011 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by designtheorist
11-07-2011 8:55 PM


Re: Reply to Nuggin
The theory you have laid out here is not one I have encountered before. While it is an interesting thought, I do not think it will do. The universe certainly had a beginning and will certainly grow cold, dark and uninhabitable. I have not come across any theory in which the universe will become empty. Nor do I know of any physical law which would suggest such an ending.
We talk about an "expanding universe" because we can see objects moving away from us at an increasing rate in all directions. That's because space itself is expanding.
We assume that the "edge" of the big bang back ground radiation is the "edge" of space but we can only judge space if there is an object to measure.
"space/time" becomes meaningless when there is nothing detectable within space time.
The ever growing expansion that we are witnessing will ultimately separate all matter. It will take a VERY long time to do so, but it will happen.
Once everything has been broken down to atoms then to subatomic particles, then to whatever is smaller still, the Universe will be "empty". Nothing will be detectable.
At that point space/time ceases to be a concept with any value.
A trillion trillion trillion years could pass and nothing would occur.
So, if, as some suggest, the big bang is the result of colliding membranes and these collisions are exceedingly rare, it's just a matter of time within the endless void of no change before a new Big Bang is triggered and a new "universe" is created.
Technically, that new Universe is within the existing universe, but it would be impossible for the life forms within that new Universe to detect or measure anything happening in the "old Universe" into which they are expanding.
We _could_ be the first Universe.
We _could_ be the ten millionth Universe.
We'd have no way of knowing.

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 Message 88 by designtheorist, posted 11-07-2011 8:55 PM designtheorist has not replied

  
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