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Author Topic:   The Search for Moderate Islam
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 156 of 432 (746450)
01-06-2015 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by jar
01-06-2015 10:51 PM


Re: maybe if we stop over reacting
I'd call the 9/11 attacks a real threat. The two WTCs, the Pentagon, and the White House. As well as one other which didn't get off the ground.
Do you have some good reason why you'd want to minimize those attacks as not being a real threat?
This I've got to hear!
How utterly sad that you find those a threat to the US.
Even if all had succeeded would they have threatened the continuation of the US?
I have a little more faith in reality. When much of London was destroyed during the Blitz did it threaten the continuation of Great Britain? Is the US so weak and insignificant that the destruction of two buildings and damage to a third threatens its existence?
Certainly it is a tragedy but to claim it was a threat to the US simply makes the US look pathetic.
Maybe you're right.
Perhaps we should invite various thugs around the world to do similar attacks on an annual basis. We could even make it a holiday of some sorts. Maybe we could even do a lottery to select who gets to whack us on that day. And the size of the attack could come as a big surprise! We could even celebrate with fireworks or something.
After all, it doesn't threaten our overall continuation, now does it?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 01-06-2015 10:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 01-06-2015 11:26 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 158 of 432 (746454)
01-06-2015 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by jar
01-06-2015 11:26 PM


Re: maybe if we stop over reacting
Maybe you're right.
Perhaps we should invite various thugs around the world to do similar attacks on an annual basis. We could even make it a holiday of some sorts. Maybe we could even do a lottery to select who gets to whack us on that day. And the size of the attack could come as a big surprise! We could even celebrate with fireworks or something.
After all, it doesn't threaten our overall continuation, now does it?
LOL
Perhaps that is what you suggest, but I have never made such a stupid suggestion.
But maybe in your wisdom you might be right.
What you are suggesting is that we should not react very vigorously to these kinds of attacks.
That's a sure method for encouraging more such attacks, not fewer!
Now, the method we used after 9/11 was probably not very good. Long, protracted gradual escalation type "actions" are a proven failure.
But perhaps our failure was in under-reacting, not over-reacting.
Maybe some combination of a short-term real "shock and awe" along with very focused use of our special forces to chase after the bad guys would have been more effective. And it would have been a lot less costly.
That extra $ trillion or so could have been used very productively on research and development here at home. It can be argued that we received no good long-term benefits from the way we conducted the post-9/11 actions. Certainly recent events have suggested that to be the case.
So, maybe the solution is more blitzkrieg and less PC in our military activities. Better to be feared and respected than to be liked.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by jar, posted 01-06-2015 11:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 01-07-2015 8:52 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 162 by ringo, posted 01-07-2015 11:40 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 163 of 432 (746545)
01-07-2015 11:32 PM


‘More will follow’: ISIS fighter praises Paris massacre
A fighter for the Islamic State militant group praised Wednesday’s attack on a French satirical magazine that killed at least 12 people, telling Reuters the raid was revenge for insults against Islam.
Hooded gunmen stormed the Paris offices of Charlie Hebdo in the worst militant assault on French soil in recent decades. The dead included top editors at Charlie Hebdo, a publication renowned for lampooning Islam, as well as two police officers.
The lions of Islam have avenged our Prophet, said Abu Mussab, a Syrian who fights with the Islamic State, which has captured broad swaths of Iraqi and Syrian territory.
These are our lions. It’s the first drops more will follow, he said, speaking via an Internet connection from Syria. He added that he and his fellow fighters were happy about the incident.
Let these crusaders be scared because they should be.
...
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by vimesey, posted 01-08-2015 4:12 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 169 by RAZD, posted 01-08-2015 9:52 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 185 of 432 (746629)
01-08-2015 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Tangle
01-08-2015 2:51 PM


just how fanatically racist you are
"Muslim" is not a race.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2015 2:51 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2015 6:01 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 190 of 432 (746647)
01-08-2015 9:47 PM


2,000 Feared Dead in Boko Haram Attack
More than 2,000 people are feared dead after Boko Haram destroyed 10 to 20 communities in Nigeria’s rural northeast, according to a senator from the region. These towns are just gone, burned down, said Ahmed Zanna. The whole area is covered in bodies. The radical Islamic group razed the town of Baga along with several others over the past five days. The 2,000 are unofficially unaccounted for.
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 194 of 432 (746651)
01-08-2015 10:15 PM


Militants planning mass casualty attacks against West
Militants planning mass casualty attacks against West
London (AFP) - The head of Britain's domestic spy agency MI5 warned on Thursday that militant Islamists in Syria were planning "mass casualty attacks" in the West and that intelligence services may be powerless to stop them.
"We know... that a group of core al-Qaeda terrorists in Syria is planning mass casualty attacks against the West," Andrew Parker told journalists in London a day after an Islamist attack in Paris claimed 12 lives.
"Although we and our partners try our utmost, we know that we cannot hope to stop everything," he added.
Parker said that fighters returning to the West from the civil war in Syria were in danger of bringing with them a "twisted ideology" that could lead them to carry out attacks on famous landmarks at home.
Although Islamic State (IS) presented the most obvious threat, fighters aligned with the core of al-Qaeda were also a danger.
"We still face more complex and ambitious plots that follow the now sadly well-established approach of al-Qaeda and its imitators -- attempts to cause large-scale loss of life, often by attacking transport systems or iconic targets," he said.
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 197 of 432 (746656)
01-09-2015 12:02 AM


Hundreds of Millions of Muslims Support Attack on ‘Charlie Hebdo’
Hundreds of Millions of Muslims Support Attack on ‘Charlie Hebdo’Hundreds of Millions of Muslims Support Attack on ‘Charlie Hebdo’
Bill Maher: Hundreds of Millions of Muslims Support Attack on ‘Charlie Hebdo’
Bill Maher didn’t hold back Wednesday night, blasting hundreds of millions of the world’s Muslims for allegedly supporting the Islamic terrorist massacre of cartoonists, writers, and editors at a Parisian satirical magazine that has mocked the Prophet Muhammad.
I know most Muslim people would not have carried out an attack like this, the host of HBO’s Real Time With Bill Maher said on ABC’s Jimmy Kimmel Live. But here’s the important point: Hundreds of millions of them support an attack like this. They applaud an attack like this. What they say is, ‘We don’t approve of violence, but you know what? When you make fun of the Prophet, all bets are off.
Hundreds of millions of Muslims? a clearly skeptical Kimmel asked his fellow comedian, an out and proud atheist who in recent years has targeted the adherents of Islam for harsh criticism.
Absolutely, Maher insisted. That is mainstream in the Muslim world. When you make fun of the Prophet, all bets are off. You get what’s coming to you. It’s also mainstream that if you leave the religion, you get what’s coming to youwhich is death. Not in every Muslim country but this is the problem in the world that we have to stand up to.
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 229 of 432 (746721)
01-09-2015 11:59 AM


Europe's nightmare: Terror threats both large and small
http://hosted.ap.org/...s/E/EU_EUROPE_DEALING_WITH_TERRORISM
LONDON (AP) -- The military-style attack in Paris has made clear that Europe faces an evolving, ever-more complex terror threat no longer dominated by a few big players.
It's not just al-Qaida, or Islamic State. It's not just the disciples of some fiery, hate-filled preachers.
Instead, security experts say, it's now an Internet-driven, generalized rage against Western society felt by radicalized Muslims that can burst into the open at any time - with a slaughter in Paris, an attack on a Jewish Museum in Belgium, or the slaying of a soldier in the streets of London.
This evolving hydra-headed beast bedevils security chiefs, who have to deal not only with al-Qaida planners looking for another 9/11-style hit but also with, as in Paris, well-trained, well-armed killers intent on avenging perceived insults to their religion by gunning down journalists.
In a rare public speech, Andrew Parker, director of the domestic British security service MI5, said Thursday that thwarting terrorist attacks has become more difficult as the threat becomes more diffuse.
It is harder, he said, for agents to disrupt plans of small groups or "lone wolves" who act spontaneously, with minimal planning but deadly effect.
More

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 247 of 432 (746793)
01-09-2015 8:01 PM


Boko Haram Just Pulled Off One Of The Deadliest Terrorist Attacks In History
The jihadist group Boko Haram has pulled off what is perhaps the deadliest attack of its ongoing, five-year-long insurgency in northern Nigeria.
Boko Haram, extremists opposed to Western-style education and secular governance in Nigeria, carried out a multiday attack in the northeast of Nigeria, focusing on the town of Baga. According to Musa Alhaji Bukar, a senior government official who spoke to the BBC, Baga, which once had a population of about 10,000 people, is now "virtually nonexistent."
The multiday rampage focused on Baga and the surrounding towns and villages. The militants razed an estimated 16 towns around Baga, according to the BBC.
These towns are just gone, burned down, Borno State Senator Ahmed Zanna told NBC News. The whole area is covered in bodies.
The rampage has led to the deaths of an estimated 2,000 Nigerian civilians, and has sent approximately 10,000 people fleeing into neighboring Chad, according to the Associated Press.
Read more: Boko Haram's Deadliest Terrorist Attack yet
[ps. Boko Haram aren't Amish]

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 8:12 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 249 of 432 (746800)
01-09-2015 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Theodoric
01-09-2015 8:12 PM


We know there are radical islamists. That isn't the topic. You are like a creationist. You think if you provide evidence of radical Islam you defeat the idea that there are moderate people in Islam.
I notice you cannot not argue against the evidence of moderates.
You keep posting on the moderates, I'll keep posting on the extremists.
When the extremists can dominate the moderates, they don't really count, do they?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 8:12 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 9:32 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 255 by NoNukes, posted 01-09-2015 11:14 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 251 of 432 (746803)
01-09-2015 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 250 by Theodoric
01-09-2015 9:32 PM


That would make you off topic wouldn't it
You want me to start a separate thread for "extreme Islam?"
I could do that, and find plenty of examples to fill it.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2015 9:32 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by jar, posted 01-09-2015 10:02 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 253 of 432 (746808)
01-09-2015 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by jar
01-09-2015 10:02 PM


Re: but even extreme Islam is not the threat equa Congress, the Executive and SCOTUS.
But even extreme Islam is not the threat to the US or US citizens that our Congress, Executive Branch and SCOTUS present and certainly no threat to the rest of the world compared to the threat from the US.
Shall I run the numbers for you again?
Run whatever you like. Its your dime.
But you have certainly expressed a very anti-American sentiment in this post.
Maybe you should go talk to the ISIS folks. Perhaps you would find a number of sentiments in common?
In the meantime, I'll take seriously any group that expresses a willingness to kill me and many of my countrymen if we don't kowtow to their extreme religious beliefs.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by jar, posted 01-09-2015 10:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by jar, posted 01-09-2015 10:34 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 261 of 432 (746867)
01-10-2015 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by ringo
01-10-2015 11:15 AM


Re: but even extreme Islam is not the threat equa Congress, the Executive and SCOTUS.
There is no left in the US, only right, righter and rightest.
If you can't see anyone to your left, what does that say about your views?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by ringo, posted 01-10-2015 11:15 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 01-10-2015 11:30 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 263 of 432 (746892)
01-10-2015 4:46 PM


Just a guess; she wasn't Amish...
Child suicide bomber kills at least 16 in Nigeria
Page Not Found | Reuters
(Reuters) - A bomb strapped to a girl aged around 10 years old exploded in a busy market place in the Nigerian city of Maiduguri on Saturday, killing at least 16 people and injuring more than 20, security sources said.
"The explosive devices were wrapped around her body and the girl looked no more than 10 years old," a police source said.
More

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Modulous, posted 01-10-2015 7:22 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 265 of 432 (746915)
01-10-2015 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Modulous
01-10-2015 7:22 PM


Re: Just a guess; she wasn't Amish...
That you thought Boko Haram strapping bombs to little girls is remotely relevant to the girl's religious perspective kind of disgusts me.
Ummm, you seem to have read my post quite wrong.
The little girl was a murder victim not a suicide bomber.
But still, she wasn't Amish. Care to guess what the dominant religion is in that area? (Isn't Mormon either.)
But what amazes me is how many apologists there are for the religion that fosters all of this mayhem.
Care to guess about what percentage of all terrorism today comes from one primary source? (And no, it isn't the Amish or the Mormons.)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Modulous, posted 01-10-2015 7:22 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by jar, posted 01-10-2015 7:36 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 269 by Faith, posted 01-10-2015 8:08 PM Coyote has not replied
 Message 287 by caffeine, posted 01-11-2015 2:30 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 368 by Modulous, posted 04-04-2015 8:42 AM Coyote has not replied

  
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