The Search for Moderate Islam

I think I get where Jon is coming from. That is, its not hard to find a proponent of a religion doing or saying pretty much anything. But what about the religion, itself?Like, I've seen Christian-based groups that go on and on about how great homeopathy is, but I wouldn't say that homeopathy is a tenant of Christianity, or even a part of it.I would argue that homeopathy is not a part of Christianity.I would also argue that moderation is not a part of Islam. Are there any parts of Islam that do teach moderation?Anyways, you've got CAIR, and from their website we get:

quote:

---

CAIR's vision is to be a leading advocate for justice and mutual understanding.

​

CAIR's mission is to enhance understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding.

​

CORE PRINCIPLES
CAIR supports free enterprise, freedom of religion and freedom of expression.
CAIR is committed to protecting the civil rights of all Americans, regardless of faith.
CAIR supports domestic policies that promote civil rights, diversity and freedom of religion.
CAIR opposes domestic policies that limit civil rights, permit racial, ethnic or religious profiling, infringe on due process, or that prevent Muslims and others from participating fully in American civic life.
CAIR is a natural ally of groups, religious or secular, that advocate justice and human rights in America and around the world.
CAIR supports foreign policies that help create free and equitable trade, encourage human rights and promote representative government based on socio-economic justice.
CAIR believes the active practice of Islam strengthens the social and religious fabric of our nation.
CAIR condemns all acts of violence against civilians by any individual, group or state.
CAIR advocates dialogue between faith communities both in America and worldwide.
CAIR supports equal and complementary rights and responsibilities for men and women.

---

Now, are these tenants of Islam?Does Islam teach freedom of religion? Does Islam teach to protect the civil rights of all Americans? Does Islam support domestic policies that promote civil rights, diversity and freedom of religion?Does Islam support equal and complementary rights and responsibilities for men and women?Now, I'm sure you can find a muslim person supporting all those things, but does that stuff stem from the religion?You also quote the Islamic Monthly, but:

quote:

---

The Islamic Monthly (TIM) is an independent, nonreligious, U.S. based hybrid print and digital publication that fosters discussion on a broad range of issues and concerns related to the modern world.

​

...

​

We take the greatest pride in being an entirely independent magazine, associated with no organization, government, group or religious ideology or political agenda.

---

So they're not even Islamic... So, where does Islam teach that?

Irrelevant and off topic.

No, they were claims made by proponents of Islam. I was asking if those claims were made by the religion, itself.A Christian could say that we should explore Mars, but that isn't anything that is inherent to Christianity.A Muslim could say that we should treat women equally, but that isn't anything that is inherent to Islam. That sounds like:"Yes, there is no moderate Islam. But its okay because nobody else is moderate either."If you agree that there is no moderate Islam, then I guess that's all there is to say about that.

Its not. I even compared it to a Christian saying we should explore Mars... Sure. But if someone started a thread wanting to talk about how Corvettes are so fast, I don't see any point to you bringing up that Ferraris are also fast.

How then, does a person become a Mulsim? Do they just make up whatever they want and are then allowed to apply the Islam label to it?Or, as I suspect, is there a dogma and a group of tenets that make up the religion in which people are born, or convert, into? What about the Quran? I was trying to talk about something that is grounded outside of mental conceptions. Wait... "Islam doesn't exist and can't teach"

I think so.Where are the parts that teach moderation?

So if an atheist says that then they magically become a muslim? The Jews had all these weird and crazy laws about what you could do and where and when and how and it got really complicated and confusing. Then, Jesus comes along and says that all that stuff isn't necessary and all you have to do is love God and your neighbor.Pretty simple. Pretty moderate. I'd also say that Buddhism is fairly moderate.And despite your position that a religion doesn't teach anything, its not that hard to say: 'Christianity teaches to love your neighbor as yourself' and still make sense out of it.In the same way, we could say: 'Islam teaches blah blah blah'So, if someone where to claim that "Islam teaches moderation", what would they use to support that claim?Now, Christianity has things like YEC's... And just like not selling cakes to gays is not a tenet of Christianity, neither is YEC.Too, Islam has things like Muslims who want equality for women... but that is not a tenet of Islam.So, what are the tenets of Islam that yield moderation? That's the conflating that Jon was complaining about.Much like a Christian can say that they shouldn't sell a cake to a gay couple, despite the fact that it is not tenent of Christianity, a muslim could say that women should be equal, despite the fact that it is not a tenent of Islam. But they do have tenets that are outlined in a book, no?Where in their tenets is the moderation? Islam is not moderate, despite the fact that there are some muslims who are.Just like: Christianity is not YEC, despite the fact that there are some Christians who are YEC. You can stop replying to me whenever you want.

Thank you.Allow me to catch up on some reading and then I'll get back to you. I do have some work I need to get done, though, so it probably won't be until tomorrow.