The Search for Moderate Islam

Well, it wouldn't be, would it? Explosions are typically louder than non-explosions. So Gandhi should have yelled louder?You Americans with your "fighting for peace" mindset don't seem to be able to comprehend the concept of being peaceful for peace. What you do - or don't do - often "speaks" louder than loud speech.

I think I get where Jon is coming from. That is, its not hard to find a proponent of a religion doing or saying pretty much anything. But what about the religion, itself?Like, I've seen Christian-based groups that go on and on about how great homeopathy is, but I wouldn't say that homeopathy is a tenant of Christianity, or even a part of it.I would argue that homeopathy is not a part of Christianity.I would also argue that moderation is not a part of Islam. Are there any parts of Islam that do teach moderation?Anyways, you've got CAIR, and from their website we get:

quote:

---

CAIR's vision is to be a leading advocate for justice and mutual understanding.

​

CAIR's mission is to enhance understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding.

​

CORE PRINCIPLES
CAIR supports free enterprise, freedom of religion and freedom of expression.
CAIR is committed to protecting the civil rights of all Americans, regardless of faith.
CAIR supports domestic policies that promote civil rights, diversity and freedom of religion.
CAIR opposes domestic policies that limit civil rights, permit racial, ethnic or religious profiling, infringe on due process, or that prevent Muslims and others from participating fully in American civic life.
CAIR is a natural ally of groups, religious or secular, that advocate justice and human rights in America and around the world.
CAIR supports foreign policies that help create free and equitable trade, encourage human rights and promote representative government based on socio-economic justice.
CAIR believes the active practice of Islam strengthens the social and religious fabric of our nation.
CAIR condemns all acts of violence against civilians by any individual, group or state.
CAIR advocates dialogue between faith communities both in America and worldwide.
CAIR supports equal and complementary rights and responsibilities for men and women.

---

Now, are these tenants of Islam?Does Islam teach freedom of religion? Does Islam teach to protect the civil rights of all Americans? Does Islam support domestic policies that promote civil rights, diversity and freedom of religion?Does Islam support equal and complementary rights and responsibilities for men and women?Now, I'm sure you can find a muslim person supporting all those things, but does that stuff stem from the religion?You also quote the Islamic Monthly, but:

quote:

---

The Islamic Monthly (TIM) is an independent, nonreligious, U.S. based hybrid print and digital publication that fosters discussion on a broad range of issues and concerns related to the modern world.

​

...

​

We take the greatest pride in being an entirely independent magazine, associated with no organization, government, group or religious ideology or political agenda.

---

So they're not even Islamic... So, where does Islam teach that?

Christianity doesn't support any of those things.

Irrelevant and off topic.

I don't think so. You seem to be setting up equality, etc. as if it is some kind of standard to which Islam "should" adhere if it is to be thought of as "moderate". I'm just saying that if nobody else upholds that standard it isn't reasonable to ask it of Islam.

No, they were claims made by proponents of Islam. I was asking if those claims were made by the religion, itself.A Christian could say that we should explore Mars, but that isn't anything that is inherent to Christianity.A Muslim could say that we should treat women equally, but that isn't anything that is inherent to Islam. That sounds like:"Yes, there is no moderate Islam. But its okay because nobody else is moderate either."If you agree that there is no moderate Islam, then I guess that's all there is to say about that.

FYI, this is a statement from the Muslim Council of Britain

How is that different from proponents of any other religion making the same claims? Yes it does sound like that - and yes it is "okay" to judge all religions by the same standard.If you want to single out Islam as "not moderate" then you have to play by your own rules.

Are you confident that you know the contents of the Koran well enough to say that? I would appreciate a demonstration.

Please describe your search. Other people are finding what you did not. Easily.

There is no such thing. You realize they abhor drugs and alcohol right - pretty much moderation right there.Seriously, yes, there are. Yes, or derived from it. Yes. The Constitution of Medina. You know, Islam doesn't exist and can't teach, right? It's just a label for several billion mental conceptions, you realize?So yes, I would say that from what I know of the religion of my Muslim friends, this naturally falls from their religious principles. The same goes for the other stuff. Have you done any self-analysis as to what you actually mean by this. Are you trying to talk about some ideal Platonic Islam? I quoted Arsalan Iftikhar who is a famous Muslim author and lawyer who also happens to have written an article that was published in Islamic Monthly for which he is a senior editor. This reflects very very badly on you and your ability to examine this subject fairly. In many mosques and homes. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

Its not. I even compared it to a Christian saying we should explore Mars... Sure. But if someone started a thread wanting to talk about how Corvettes are so fast, I don't see any point to you bringing up that Ferraris are also fast.

How then, does a person become a Mulsim? Do they just make up whatever they want and are then allowed to apply the Islam label to it?Or, as I suspect, is there a dogma and a group of tenets that make up the religion in which people are born, or convert, into? What about the Quran? I was trying to talk about something that is grounded outside of mental conceptions. Wait... "Islam doesn't exist and can't teach"

I think so.Where are the parts that teach moderation?

You say "La ilaha illallah, Muhammadun rasulullah " It works the same as with any religion. Or political idea. Or social movement. It's a socially constructed idea, not something that can be pointed to as a real thing.Look - it'll help me understand what you are looking for with Islam if you find another religion and show me the moderate version. The Quran is not Islam. It's a book. Can you see the difference? Islam is a mental conception. If there were no brains, there'd be no Islam. If what happened there confuses you, socio-cultural religious studies is probably not the subject you should be pontificating about.I mentally replaced 'does Islam' with 'do Muslims' to make the question coherent so that I could answer the spirit of the question rather than needlessly repeat a point I made earlier.What are you trying to say? You are not communicating it very well.