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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Sorry, you don't have evidence, all you have is belief about the age of the earth.
Simple denial.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
I think your 8000 feet of cooled crust is ridiculous.
Why? What makes it ridiculous?
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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In Faith's view there is no evidence that would help decide between her scenario and yours.
I am beginning to believe that she thinks all evidence is Faith-centric (in more ways than one). What everyone else 'sees' is wrong, but what she 'sees' is iron-clad proof.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Right, of course the EDUCATED EYE knows that sedimentary rocks hundreds of millions of years old look just exactly like rocks thousands of years old.
They do? You have some evidence for this? Something to support your point?
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Actually, in this particular case, where all I'm saying is that if it happened my way rather than his there would be fewer steps,...
Ummm, that's not evidence.
... evidence isn't even called for.
Actually, I'm calling for it. What is the evidence for your abrasion at the Great Unconformity?
It's just a statement of fact: IF it happened this way then there would be fewer steps. It's simply true as stated.
Fewer steps is not evidence. I'm asking for evidence.
ABE: But I do think that the appearance of say the lower part of Siccar Point should show obviously much older more decrepit rock as it were than the upper if it's really hundreds of millions of years older.
Why would older rocks be less resistant to erosion?
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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While it's always a bit of a walk on the wild side trying to guess what Faith might be thinking, I'm going to hazard a guess. My guess is that when she looks at a cross section of strata exposed in a canyon or elsewhere, she momentarily forgets that the layers have been buried for most of their history. It's then just a short step to receiving the intuitively divined certain knowledge that the really old layers should have weathered more than the younger layers, despite their not actually having been out in the weather the whole time.
That notion crossed my mind as I shut down earlier. It kind of rang a bell when I remembered some YECs talking about dinosaur fossils being found at the ground surface .... so, how could they be old? We still haven't made progress on that one.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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But why are you asking me for evidence when you merely spelled out the basic principles of horizontality, superposition and crioss cutting, and described the order of things you believe occurred to create an angular unconformity, and all I did was respond that if things happened as I suppose rather than as you suppose the order would be different. It's a simple if-then logic, not calling for evidence at all. You may ask for evidence, but not in that context.
The evidence has been provided to you in hundreds of posts prior to that exercise. For instance: ---The unconformities cross cutting layering in the GC metamorphic rocks, ---The faults cutting Supergroup rocks but not Tapeats, ---Eroded fragments of older rock found in the sequence above the unconforities, ---The presence of straight and flat unconformities in modern settings, ---The lack of shearing textures at the unconformities. Those things are evidence. All you have given us is 'looks like'...
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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I'm not assuming that weathering is the only force that could age rocks, it just happens to be the case at Siccar Point, where to my eye there is no difference in decrepitude between the upper and lower sections --both are rather dramatically decrepit.
So what are the other 'aging forces' for rocks? Why should there be any difference in weathering of the two ages of rocks? Is this a straw-man argument, or are you just that unaware of geological processes?
Surely at least while the upper strata were supposedly depositing on the tilted section, which may have taken hundreds of millions of years, the lower section was already supposedly millions of years old and now getting older.
Faith, rocks do not age as people age...
As for strata buried deep underground I would be thinking of weight and pressure causing deformation over time, and signs of "erosion" between layers.
Are you talking about lithification making rocks weaker? And what 'erosion between layers' are you talking about? Do you mean unconformities?
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
I'm aware that the effects of weathering can extend some distance from an exposed surface, particularly a horizontal surface, but I'm going to have to throw myself on the mercy of the geologists for information about the nature and extent of those effects.
There is a bit of contention here that we have not addressed that I know of. In Faith's video, the speaker says that there is no evidence of weathering beneath the Great Unconformity; and yet, the reference that HBD(?) provided earlier specifically said that weathering affected those rocks (in places) to a depth of 20 feet or more, IIRC. I'm quite certain that the latter is correct.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Concerning the appearance of age of the rocks at Siccar Point, you can't use that appearance as an indication of actual age. The lower layers are a very hard sandstone, the upper layers a softer sandstone.
I'm glad you brought this up. Contrary to almost everything Faith (and other YECs, as well) says, older rocks are generally different in appearance and more resistant to weathering; and can be recognized as such by trained individuals.
The softer sandstone is more vulnerable to erosion, and so where exposed it quickly comes to have an appearance that you interpret as ancient. But if you were to take a core of that sandstone you would find that where not exposed it has no appearance of age at all.
Even geologists often aren't thinking about weathering as they look at rock formations such as Uluru (Uluru - Wikipedia) with its tan to brick red coloration. But if you break the rock to look at an unweathered surface, the actual color of the material is a rather boring gray. However, I don't recommend going up there and cracking open the rocks to test this.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
I do consider God's own revelation to be primary evidence against all claims to evidence that contradict it, such as science's "evidence" for both an ancient earth and evolution.
"God's own revelation" is exactly what we are looking at, Faith. What you are talking about is "your own misbegotten interpretation of that revelation".
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
What if you're wrong, edge?
Wrong about what? I can handle being wrong.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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And although my hypothesis about how angular unconformities could have formed differently from the standard OE explanation is dismissed supposedly for lack of evidence, the very fact that it's even possible that such an alternative explanation could exist, and in fact has some evidence in the experiment done by Lyell that was illustrated here, deserves better than the standard biased dissing it got.
But it isn't possible. Not without evidence. In fact, we have countervailing evidence.
Plus I'd note bias in the usual conjecture-based "evidence" that is accepted as long as it is on the side of status quo OE belief, but rejected if it's on the YE side.
Evidence is evidence, Faith. You can complain all you want, but nothing changes the weight of actual evidence.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Correct me if Im wrong but wouldnt plates having slowed down to current observable rate mean that 4300 years ago theyd have travelled even faster than that 30.000 times calculated by constant speed?
Good point. In fact, it's not just 'current' rates since, from all that we can glean from history, the plates have been at their current speeds for at least 2000 years.
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edge Member (Idle past 1736 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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I didn't make up continental drift, science did. If there is one thing that does have good solid evidence for it, it's continental drift. You can see it on maps, the comparisons between geological and biological facts on formerly connected land masses are easily verified in observable reality.
Hmmmm, sounds pretty speculative to me.
It's really sad when Christians themselves put their energy on the side of so-called science against other Christians ...
So why do you pit yourself against so many other Christians? Please keep up the good work, Faith. you are single handedly dismantling Christianity with your personal dogma.
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