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Author Topic:   Open-minded Skepticism
1.61803
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 32 of 85 (759291)
06-10-2015 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by mikechell
06-08-2015 4:47 PM


Re: Skepticism is a good thing !!!
mikechell writes:

Most people cannot conceive the fact that, when the chemical/electrical processes of the brain stop, so do you.


Perhaps your physical body. But everything you ever have done continues to send ripples throughout the universe. The memory of your existance still exist.
mikeshell writes:

My skepticism fades ... body dies, brain ceases to function ... you cease to exist.

Yes your physical self. But not the part of you than can not die, the memory of you.

mikeshell writes:

"God" is a creation of man to avoid that conclusion.

Perhaps. But I choose to believe our existence is more than than the sum of it's parts. It does have meaning that our concious brains choose to give it, for better or for worse. imo.
Skepticism is a good thing? Nah, we all base most of our decisions on belief rather than hard evidence, otherwise nothing would get done. Many believe the sources of our facts based on the confidence we have in those sources. It is there that confirmation bias can rear it's ugly head.

Edited by 1.61803, : spelling

Edited by 1.61803, : change "confidence to confirmation"


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by mikechell, posted 06-08-2015 4:47 PM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by mikechell, posted 06-10-2015 3:14 PM 1.61803 has responded

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 37 of 85 (759314)
06-10-2015 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by mikechell
06-10-2015 3:14 PM


Re: Skepticism is a good thing !!!
mikechell writes:

Sorry, but no. Your ripples die out as soon as your brain does.

You have evidence of this? Or is this arm chair speculation based on your own naval gazing expertise? I can refute your above statement by saying a brain dead person can still be physically alive for decades. And that is not even part of my argument. I can also refute your above statement by saying the finger nail, hair and toenail matrix continues production post mortum.( further ripples) So again your wrong. But the sailent point of my comments was that our human interactions in life "live on after our physical death. Your personal nihilistic take on your own life is not the end all- (pun intended) of what many others choose to believe.

kmikeschell writes:

Exactly my point. Everyone likes to believe they'll "live on". But it's just not true.

Well if by "live on" you mean your physical body I agree, most reasonable folks do. Once your physical body is dead then yes your phyical body is dead. Duh, kind of redundant.

mikeshell writes:

Granted, you might leave a memory, but those only last until they no longer are important to the "rememberer". You ceased to exist long before that.

If you grant that YOU left a memory then who is to judge what is or is not important enough to remember. All people and memories are not created equal and some are more memorable than others.

mikeshell writes:

It is blind belief that causes "nothing would get done". Skepticism drives the search for truth. Belief does not require truth, or action, it just "is". And it causes stagnation.


Skeptics do not have to do anything but be skeptical. That is the epitomy of inaction. I challenge you to try to get though your day fact checking every interaction you encounter. Lets just see how much you get done.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by mikechell, posted 06-10-2015 3:14 PM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by mikechell, posted 06-10-2015 5:50 PM 1.61803 has responded

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(3)
Message 40 of 85 (759356)
06-10-2015 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by mikechell
06-10-2015 5:50 PM


Re: Skepticism is a good thing !!!
mikechell writes:

Since all brain activity is electro-chemical, once it stops, death. Once the body dies, there is no way to continue the thoughts that made the person. That person ceases to exist.

Does their memorie cease to exist? Do their children cease to exist? Does their life work cease to exist? If you define your person as your physical body then yes you cease to exist. I was simply offering another point of view that our lives are more than the sum of its physical parts. That we are the ones that give meaning to our lives.
mikechell writes:

Actually, no they don't. It's been an accepted fact for some time, the skin recedes, the nails and hair don't grow.

Ok Ill concede this point . But you did say once brain death the body dies. And I have shown that the physical body can be kept alive post brain death so the person is still physically alive despite being brain dead so your still wrong.
mikechell writes:

No, I was referring to the fantasy of a "soul" that will know heaven or hell.

Where in the conversation did I mention either of those things?

mikeshell writes:

True ... memories will live on. Books keep some memories around longer. But memories aren't "Souls" and the individual is not alive just because memories are.

Again I never said the individual stayed physically alive just because his/her memories did. And again I never spoke of the soul at all.

mikeschell writes:

That argument could be said of anybody. But being skeptical means you question the validity of something.


And believing means you accept something not based on evidence.
My point was that people operate in daily life based on beliefs rather than non belief. It is impossible to check the sources of all information. You believe the things you read and hear based on the confidence you have in those sources and their sources.
If you do not believe anything then how can you function?
Believing something is not the same thing as blind faith no more than skepticims is the same thing as denying everything. There is room in the universe for both skepticism and belief.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by mikechell, posted 06-10-2015 5:50 PM mikechell has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 54 of 85 (759422)
06-11-2015 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by mikechell
06-11-2015 6:42 AM


Re: Okay ... I'll give up.
Hi mikechell,

We here a EvC would argue over any and everything regardless of what the subject matter.

I once saw a thread several pages long over what the word superstition meant. (not kidding)

Pedantry and sarcasm with a smattering of provocation abound, however once you get a flavor of the various forumites you'll see it is just a bunch of argumentative over educated ol' buzzards waiting for fresh meat. Just kidding. ha ha.

Welcome to the fray, it's all in fun.
P.S. I have learned a tremendous amount here from the various forum members here. My mind has been opened about a vast array of subjects.

Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.

Edited by 1.61803, : *Added postscript


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by mikechell, posted 06-11-2015 6:42 AM mikechell has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 82 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 71 of 85 (759510)
06-12-2015 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by mikechell
06-11-2015 10:58 PM


Re: Okay ... I'll give up.
Hi Mike,
Facts can change, example: It is a fact that the white rhino exist in Africa.
In the near future it may also be a fact that it has become extinct.
Right? Oh so right now it is a fact that it is extant. But you see how easily facts can change depending on conditions and perceptions and a whole host of things.

I think you may be conflating a fact with the natural laws of the universe/physics which so far as we know are immutable. (*with caveats in quantum physics)

Facts are important in that they set the bar on what we all can agree is true. But just as the above example; those things are not set in stone regardless of how hard you cling to them.
That is all folks are saying.

If you are in a room and I show you a green ball and asked you what color is the ball? You would say it is green. If I get a hundred people to tell me the color they would say it is green. So the ball is green, a matter of fact. But is it? No, the ball is actually yellow and I have been shining a blue light from above on the ball. So where does that fact lie?


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by mikechell, posted 06-11-2015 10:58 PM mikechell has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Jon, posted 06-12-2015 1:45 PM 1.61803 has not yet responded
 Message 73 by mikechell, posted 06-13-2015 9:29 AM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
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