Christianity and the End Times

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I acknowledge that it could the case.
But I don't think it is the case.

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That is quite bizarre. You can read the complete text of the message Revelation 3:7-13 and see that it does not specify how or where any might be spared. You certainly know that the Revelation was written close to 2000 years ago so those living at the time have all died. But apparently you doubt both points. Very strange.

Even being generous with interpretation it wasn’t a sure thing. If they had got to the Tree of Life before being thrown out they would have lived forever (Genesis 3:22)

According to the story he serpent certainly told the truth and the assertion that Adam and Eve would die in the same day (2:17) that they ate the fruit is certainly not literally true.Is it your contention then, that Scripture commands us to lie about the story, and even calls lying good ?

It doesn’t change the fact that eating the fruit didn’t kill them or guarantee that they would die.You can impose whatever you like in the story, but in context it is pretty clear that Eve was worried that the fruit was poisonous and the serpent truthfully told her it wasn’t. The serpent told the truth about the actual effects of the fruit, too.

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What you fail to understand is that they DID die "in that same day" because death is a process that eats away at our human frame, first by destroying the faculty known as spirit, and that began that same day

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That is still not the same as literally dying. According to the Bible Adam and Eve lived a long time after eating the fruit.

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You are insisting on the meaning of "literally dying" as in completely physically dying

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I am insisting that it can only be literally true if it is literally true.If you are going to accuse me of failing to understand you at least owe me the courtesy of dealing with what I actually said. And what I actually said is that it was not *literally* true that they died the same day.

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I've also got to comment that it's very odd you modern revisionists don't recognize that the text has been read since it was written and nobody until you accused it of saying what you say it says. Shouldn't basic humility caution you that Moses himself and everyone who read it down the centuries might know what it means?

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Of course you have no idea of how it was read or interpreted that far back. Maybe you should learn to stop making things up and expecting to be believed.If anyone is going to be called revisionist it should be those who promote a strained interpretation which lacks support in the text of the story.

The story clearly indicates that the snake told the truth, and even under your interpretation God allowed Adam and Eve to misunderstand an unclear warning.Call Genesis 2 and 3 blasphemous if you like, but then you have to explain its inclusion in the Bible.

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See...I would argue that motives are more important than the content. We both know that anyone can have the Bible quotemined to say anything that they want it to say.

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That is a very negative view of the Bible. I believe that the quote-miners can and should be opposed.The idea that motives count for more than the substance comes close to the ends justify the means. Not to mention the famous saying about the road to Hell.Besides, how can you really know the motives? Are you really going to trust what Jaywill says about his motives? At the least he regards promoting certain teacher’s views above honestly reporting what the Bible says.

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This is why I always wonder why you emphasize the snakes "truthfulness" and Gods (or as you say the god character) supposed lies. You are basically pushing your own agenda just as much as myself, jaywill, or any other apologist.

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In the story, God was certainly not entirely straight about the fruit, and the serpent at worst omitted things that Eve might have wanted to know. Even being generous to your side that is fact. It is not quote-mining to say so. Which certainly puts jar ahead of Jaywill.

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My motives are right out up front and on the table. I help people to believe the Bible.

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Well that isn’t true for a start.

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You're here to help people disbelieve the Bible. You're evidently ashamed or just too cowardly to confess it.

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And that isn't true either. I want people to believe the truth. If the Bible happens to be true then I don’t mind in the least.That’s why I got in a huge argument about Jesus mythicism here. A mythicist was using such bad arguments I had to contradict him (and he did not like it in the least). I don’t promote mythicism - the historical evidence for Jesus is poor but it’s good enough for an obscure figure who had no great impact on society in life.

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I help people believe the truth of the Bible

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If you really cared about that you wouldn’t misrepresent the Bible to promote the teachings of your idols.

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You're here to teach people that that is not true. Am I right ?

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Not really. As I said it is the truth that concerns me.

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You poor over the pages of the Bible hunting for reasons NOT to believe what it says about the incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of the Son of God.

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Nope.

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I mean basically what the serpent did to Eve you are here doing something like that "DID GOD REALLY SAY thus and such ??"

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Right?

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No, I am going This is what the story says. For some reason some Christians - nominal Christians at least - don’t seem to like what it says and don’t want to accept it. They would rather reject the Bible than find an honest way of dealing with their problems. And that is on them.

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"See? See? The End didn't come Yet!" is also quite a cliche.

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If it is, it is only because erroneous predictions of the end are so common. Which was my point.

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So you're good at dropping sensational little bombs and expecting people to drag out of you what you mean like pulling teeth.

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Hardly. Merely stating the obvious.

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Care to explain where I promoted idols?

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All through this thread. It’s what you do.

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I wrote on more than one occasion - My God is the man Jesus Christ.

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It’s easy to say, but that doesn’t make it true.

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You mean like Jesus predicted that many false prophets would come saying "I am the Christ" and warning about wars and rumors of wars.

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I mean people claiming to be good Christians and saying that the Apocalypse was near. People like Hal Lindsey, to name one.

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Do you owe your creation to God or random chance ?

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I know I owe my existence to my parents. I have no good reason to think that God had anything to do with it.

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Do you need forgiveness from God ?
Do you need salvation from the guilt of your sins before God ?

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I do not believe I do, or that there is a God to forgive or save. And it is my concern for the truth that has lead me there.Edited by PaulK, : Auto correct struck again

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Ie. "Hal Lindsey said not only the Second Coming was near but that HE was a GOOD Christian". Where did he write that?

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Oh please. Even Hal Lindsey’s request for donations - prominent on his website talks about sharing the Gospels. And just like you he was promoting his own view of Biblical prophecy.