Big Bang - Big Dud

pretty sure that's an oxymoron if explosions destroy.

We know this how, exactly? Both the assertion that humans have one of them thangs, and that animals don't... What does that mean? All the people I know have complex emotions, care about at least a few of their neighbors....like other social animals, but more "intelligent" or at least better communicators. What's wrong with that?Back to the topic:
"Big Bang" was a term coined by Sir Fred Hoyle to be derisive of the theory - it was in contradiction to his, now disproved, theory of a "steady-state" universe with matter constantly popping into being. Don't get hung up on "explosions" or "bangs" as analogies, 'cause they're not very good ones. Read Sylas's stuff - linked above - instead.

It's simply explained - you've misunderstood. The Big Bang is not an explosion.It really is just that simple. It's not an explosion. It's an expansion of the volume of the observable universe; an expansion that continues to this day.You're making much hay about the fact that its called the "Big Bang", but you need to understand that that name was not how the developers of the theory called it; that was the name crafted by its opponents to discredit the theory. It's catchy but it really has nothing but a surface similarity to the specifics of the theory.

I can appreciate that, but what does what you'd like to be true have to do with what is true?

So evolution's true? do you really believe that?

It's not possible to know what is true, because of a philosophical problem called "solipcism".But I believe that evolution is the most accurate scientific model of the history and diversity of life on Earth, including the human species. And that's it. It's not a theory about the formation of the universe or the origin of the first living things, so naturally I don't believe it explains those things.All it explains is the diversity and history of species on Earth, and it does that very, very well.

Let's say that I'm quite sure, based on several lines of evidence, that my ancestors a couple of hundred thousan years ago were sorta apish looking critters in Africa. I could be shown to be wrong on that - they might have been in Asia instead - but that's not where current evidence points.

How do I know that's true? If evolution is not the answer to the origin of the first living things and the formation of the universe then where do you go? Is that just a blank page waiting for an answer?aside from this I would like to know how the "unfolding" of the universe caused the Earth's placement to be so exact that if it was farther or closer away from the sun, we would freeze or burn up respectively.This message has been edited by daaaaaBEAR, 01-26-2005 17:15 AM

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If evolution is not the answer to the origin of the first living things and the formation of the universe then where do you go? Is that just a blank page waiting for an answer?

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Do we have to know where the iron came from within the earth to build a car out of it? The question of where life came from is handled by the Theory of Abiogenesis, a separate but related theory.

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aside from this I would like to know how the "unfolding" of the universe caused the Earth's placement to be so exact that if it was farther or closer away from the sun, we would freeze or burn up respectively.

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The Big Bang has nothing to do with the formation of solar systems, other than supplying energy at the very beginnning. Again, you want car manufacturing to explain iron ore mining techniques.

Yes, exactly. Maybe everything is a delusion, but a delusion so convincing it can't be distinguished from the truth.Again, you're making the mistake of letting what you would like to be true determine what you think is true. Down the hall, to the chemistry and cosmology departments. Evolution is a theory of biology. It explains nothing but how species diversify and change over time. How can anyone win the lottery if one number higher or lower means they don't win at all? It's the same question.Exactly how precise do you think Earth's orbit has to be? After all the Earth's orbit is elliptical; it ranges from 147 million km from the Sun to as far as 152 million km. That's a difference of 5 million km, but we neither freeze in July (aphelion) nor fry in January (perihelion).

There's about 9,000,000,000 years of stars forming and dying between the "unfolding" and the beginning of our solar system - it's only been here for the last one-third of the time since the BB.Most likely, chance put our planet where it now is, and then, with liquid water and some other amenities, life arose. But as Crash mentions, we're not at one precise distance from the Sun. It's very odd to me how that notion, and even the claim that Earth has the most nearly circular orbit in the solar system, are commom from creationist/ID sources. Any freshman astronomy text or two minutes with Google prove both wrong.

For the origin of the first living things you go to abiogenesis research (which is a lot less well developed and understood than the theory of evolution, and has lots of unanswered questions). For the formation of the universe you go to cosmology (which is pretty well developed and understood, but there are still some pretty big uanswered qurestions).Sometimes the formation of the universze is referred to as an evolution, but the theory of evolution is always about biological organisms on Earth. Nobody can beat what Douglas Adams said about this:

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A puddle wakes up one morning and starts thinking, "this is an interesting world I find myself in. It fits me very neatly. In fact it fits me precisely. This whole world must have been made to fit me. As the sun shines the puddle evoporates slowly and keeps wondering how very well everything fits and is convinced that the world is made for it."

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Chance? Chance is a likelihood that something will happen as you said. There's a likelihood that that 13.7 billion years nothing "expanded" into everything that is today. There is also a likelihood that this universe was created by God who set the clock.Which brings an interesting view to mind: Who started the clock? When did time began and intialize the explosion of our universe compressed into the confines of an atomic nucleus?There HAS to be a starting point, a stopwatch does not just start but has to have a button pushed. Did God push start the time with the push of button and let the Big Bang take its course? This is illogical since, given his infinite power, he could have created everything with out the the billions of years.

You're claiming that since everything might be a delusion no person can find truth. Does our whole humanity submit to possibile lies? Why are you here? For what purpose have you been placed on this earth for God's sake!! Are we merely life-forms with no eternal purpose just to rot in our grave and be forgotten?I know the Bible can't convince anybody who doesn't want to believe in it but I think this verse might bring light to the frustration of creationists versus evolutionists:
1 Timothy 4:3,4
"3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."I don't mean to infringe on any scientific theories but only to convey what we believe to be the truthful, inspired, Word of God and how it affects our view in this debate.

amen. don't let these evo witnessers get you down.