This discussion seems to be getting a little bit of "did to", "did NOT". I'd like to remind everyone that it is necessary to support your claims.
However, I haven't been following closely enough to tell you hasn't been.
Could I ask both sides to summarize where they feel the discussion is? Then point out the particular evidence and logic for their side. It is time to focus this. I must apologize for not being able to go over the thread in fine detail. The big move is in progress. But when I get the time I will and will be cranky if i have too.