The Foundations of the Debate

It is.The ToE says nothing about gods. It neither confirms nor denies the existence of any diety.Why are we discussing it? Well, there are a couple of reasons. The most important one is that creos keep trying to claim that creationism stands on equal footing with the ToE. If scientists don't respond, that increases the danger that the claim might be accepted as accurate.The second reason is to show that the claim that the ToE conflicts with religion is not necessarily true. One would think that this would be self-evident, particularly considering that most scientists in this country are christians. Moreover, since evolution, at most, only conflicts with a literalist reading of the bible, and most people don't read the bible that way, it's difficult to understand why this is any kind of issue for most folk.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Does that mean that if incontrovertable evidence were found that showed that some part of Genesis is impossible, you would lose all faith in god?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

I saw that the other day at Waldenbooks. I'm waiting for the movie. Word is that they're trying to get Bruce Willis to play Orville, but I understand he's holding out for Wilber.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Congratulations. We can now close this thread, because you have just answered your own question.This is the reason there is a debate. The debate is not because there's a scientific dispute. In fact, the debate is not because "evolution denies god." There's a debate because of people like you, whose faith in god relies on the bible being literally true and inerrant.Evolution doesn't deny the existence of god. Science as a whole doesn't deny the existence of god. But, virtually every natural science has made findings inconsistent with a literal, inerrant interpretation of the bible. And, if the only way you can find meaning in the bible is to believe that every word is literally true, you're going to be in a bad way.Here's the thing that I find absolutely hysterical. I can find meaning in the bible. I think there are important truths that it contains, and life lessons that everyone would benefit from if they learned them. However, not only do I not believe the bible is inerrant and literally true, I don't even believe in god.It's apparently inconceivable to you that the bible has any worth if any single word if it is not true. It's incomprehensible to me how anyone can come to that conclusion.Any more questions?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

It's a well-known fact that every adolescent boy has a dog-eared copy of The Origin of Species hidden under his pillow.:rme:

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

I'm glad I amused you. Before I engage you any further, I'd like to ask a few questions, if you don't mind.Are you interested in discussing science? Or religion?Are you here merely to "spread the word," or are you interested in a genuine dialogue?I'm also generally curious about how you obtained your understanding of evolution.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Name one.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Throwing your weight around already eh? That didn't take long.Or would this be more like influence peddling?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Wow, does that mean I'm part of the "Cororate 'dictatorship?'" [/chest swelling with pride] Where do I go to collect my share of the money and power that comes from selling evolution? I could use a bit of green.As far as why ask for proof, that's an easy one. If someone says something outlandish, I like to find out if they have any support for it. If they do, I look into it. Maybe it's not as outlandish as I thought. Mostly though, they have none.Edited by subbie, : No reason given.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Uh, no.Inner city minorities were, and are, being discriminated against because of their skin color, something they have no control over. IF creationist christians are being "discriminated against" in the manner you describe, it's because they lack knowledge, by their own choice, that others have. Not nearly the same thing.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

I agree with what jar had to say, but will add this:Scams rely, for the most part, on lying to people, getting them to believe something that isn't true. Most scammers, therefore, run the risk of criminal prosecution for fraud, as well as civil liability. However, when you're selling that old time religion, or some new fangles variant thereof, that danger is eliminated. In other words, the fleeced sheep are a lot less likely to bite back.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

Because the "holy" men have convinced them that they are doing "god's work" and possibly think they are buying their way into heaven. And what makes one feel better than fighting the evils of the world, including "evil"ution?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin