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Author Topic:   Uranium Dating
jar
Member
Posts: 32723
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 25 of 153 (573297)
08-10-2010 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Dogmafood
08-10-2010 7:12 PM


Actually, there are several different measurement methods. The important point is that each method is independent of the others so it is not like everyone comparing watches, it is like watches and sundials and season of the year and the flowers that are blooming and the birds that are nesting all agreeing.

Radioactive dating is simply accurate.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32723
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 37 of 153 (573391)
08-11-2010 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by archaeologist
08-11-2010 8:04 AM


archaeologist writes:

they cannot make the claim that this fish is an intermediary simply because all they have is a partial skull and no observation of it being produced by a lesser form and no observation of it changing into a superior form.

in other words all evolutionists have is the scientists' conjecture that this is a intermediary and no proof they are correct and no way to prove that they are correct.

this is what sinks evolution, it is built upon hearsay and wishful thinking and not by following the scientific priniciples held dear by secular scientists.

Speaking to you as one Christian to another, you are talking absolute nonsense and only making Christians look stupid. Comments like "it being produced by a lesser form and no observation of it changing into a superior form" indicate that you have no idea of even the basics such as what Evolution is or what the Theory of Evolution says.

When you say really silly stuff like

quote:
which is why you are not supposed to follow science, it cannot give the truth when you need it. it also isn't fair or just. you see that is what mkaes God and the ible so much better. what was true 5,000 years ago was still true 2,000 years ago an dis still true today. everyone has a chance of chooising and learning it and it is not in the hands of the elite few (scientists) it is accessible to everyone and one does not need advanced degrees to find it.

you lose any credibility at all.

I am making the assumption that "ible" was meant to be Bible.

First off, no Bible existed 5000 years ago or even 2000 years ago. Second, even today there is no universal Canon, no such thing as "The Bible™".

If you intend to debate here it is a good idea to start with facts that can be supported.

Next, to not use the brains god gave you and instead rely on an anthology of anthologies as an explanation of the world we see is an act of supreme hubris and a denial of god's gifts. It is nothing more than inflicting ignorance on our children.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 32723
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 48 of 153 (573506)
08-11-2010 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by archaeologist
08-11-2010 5:29 PM


Before you go too far astray, perhaps you should read Radiometric Dating A Christian Perspective.

Since this topic is on Uranium (radiometric) dating it might help if you knew what the subject was actually about.

Once you fully understand that material I can point out additional sources that should help you better understand the subject.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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jar
Member
Posts: 32723
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 86 of 153 (573963)
08-13-2010 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by archaeologist
08-12-2010 7:31 PM


archaeologist writes:

you still have to assume that nothing went wrong with the speedometer or radar gun through usage, natural elements or faulty craftsmanship, to name a few things that could go wrong.

Guess what. Yet more untruths from you.

Radiometric dating DOES make the assumption that something might have gone wrong with the speedometer or radar gun. That is why multiple methods of dating are used.

To stick with this analogy, the conclusion is checked using the speedometer, the radar gun and someone watching the distance covered and timing it with his stop watch.

Then all the independent results are examined. If the speedometer, the radar gun and the time/distance calculation all give about the same answer then we can be pretty sure it is right. If two of the three agree then we can still have a high level of confidence that the conclusion is right, not quite as high as when all three agree but still pretty high.

BUT WAIT...there's more.

Science goes even further and has several different folk do the dating using the different methods, so what the reality is is that several speedometers, several radar guns and several folk with stop watches all do their thing independently, not knowing what the answer should be.

And guess what.

Time after time the same results are returned.

The earth is old.

The Universe is even older.

Radiometric dating works.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by archaeologist, posted 08-12-2010 7:31 PM archaeologist has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by archaeologist, posted 08-13-2010 5:24 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32723
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 99 of 153 (574042)
08-13-2010 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by archaeologist
08-13-2010 5:24 PM


archaeologist writes:

i do not agree with the 6,000 year date but i do not agree with the old earth theories either, i do not know when the earth and universe were created because if you will note, human time was created AFTER the earth and universe, rendering any determination of age impossible.

I'm sorry but "human time" simply has no meaning, it is just word salad. Time existed long before there were any humans, before this earth, before our sun, before our galaxy. I know when the earth was created and so does just about everyone on this board.

The topic though is on dating.

archaeologist writes:

but created with age does not mean God is lying to people,...

Of course it does. That is precisely what it means. The god you seem to try to market is no different than Coyote or Loki, nothing more than a trickster, at best a practical joker, at worst a conman.

archaeologist writes:

remember my example of the table and the tablemaker, it fails a little because God didn't use old material but the gist is on point.

Remember it. Yes, it failed, but not because of anything God did. It failed because the only thing that the age of the wood can tell us is when the tree got cut down. We can say that the table was not made before the tree was cut down but from the age of the wood, there is not much more we can tell. It was a ridiculous example.

archaeologist writes:

now concerning the age, as i havesaid, God did not say WHEN the earth was created andwhen God keeps a secret it is impossible for anyone to find out what it really is. science cannot discover it because origins is outside of its scope and not part of its authority and because it has no way to verify that it is correct.

Sorry but that is just more nonsense. Of course origins are within the scope of science and the idea that Science must look to some authority is simply ludicrous. What authority would science need?

Science is how we found out that the Biblical Flood never happened, remember?

And we know pretty much exactly when this earth was created.

That is the subject of this thread, and the issues that have been raised and you always tend to run away from.

Why do all the different independent methods of dating give us the same answer? Is that just more of your god fudging the data, playing tricks on folk?

Edited by jar, : wrong word, had universe instead of earth.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by archaeologist, posted 08-13-2010 5:24 PM archaeologist has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by archaeologist, posted 08-13-2010 6:33 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32723
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 107 of 153 (574053)
08-13-2010 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by archaeologist
08-13-2010 6:33 PM


archaeologist writes:

jar writes:

Science is how we found out that the Biblical Flood never happened, remember?

this is a fallacy and untrue. given that we cannot dig up the whole world to get uiform evidence, given that we would not know what noah's flood evidence would look like, given that we do not know what the pre-flood geography was like, given that the many natural disasters, volcanoes, earthquakes, local floods etc, would change the evidence insome way, given the many wars and their destructive nature would affect the evidence, given that construction and marching of armies, migrating people would alter the evidence in some way, given that approx. 3,500 years have transpired since the event---just what kind of evidence do you think science would find in the modern age?

let's put it in simple and realistic terms, you just do not want to believe in & obey God, use faith, or agree with the Bible so you use a limited field like science to provide your excuses or justifications to live the life you want.

just be a man and say you do not want to follow God and be done with it. at least that can be respected.

Again, you simply post untruths. As I have told you I am a devout Christian so your last point is just silly. I have taught adult and child Sunday school, helped found several new churches, personally helped build a couple and maintain websites for a half dozen or so churches.

I posted the evidence for you already and it absolutely refutes the Biblical Flood. Plus it does not depend on any of the nonsense that creationist bring up like some pre-flood nonsense.

But I will post it yet again for you.

quote:
In the version of the myth found in Genesis 6 God instructs Noah to:

quote:
19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

In the version of the myth found in Genesis 7 we see similar (close but not the same) instructions:

quote:
2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

We also find similar explanations of what will be destroyed in Genesis 6 it says:

quote:
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them."

and in Genesis 7:

quote:
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

In both myths lots of critters get killed, in the myth found in Genesis 6 it seems to be talking about land animals and birds while the myth found in Genesis 7 goes even further and wipes out all living things.

If we play mix and match and take the best scenario from each of the myths we might be able to claim that only the birds and land animals were wiped out based on the passage from the Genesis 6 story and that we have the larger saved population found in Genesis 7.

Based on that mix and match game set we have a situation where all land animals and birds found today will be descended from a population that consisted of at most fourteen critters (seven pairs of clean animals and birds) and at worst case four critters (two pair of unclean animals).

Now that is what I would call a real bottleneck.

We know we can see bottlenecks in the genetic record; a great example is the one in Cheetahs but we even see them in the human genome and most other species.

BUT...

If the flood actually happened we would see a bottleneck in EVERY species of animal living on the land and EVERY bird and EVERY one of the bottlenecks show up in the SAME historical time period.

Talk about a big RED flag.

That bottleneck signature would be something every geneticists in the world would see. It would be like a neon sign, Broadway at midnight on New Years Eve. It would be something even a blind geneticist could see.

So it seems to me to be a very simple test that will support or refute the Flood.

If that genetic marker is there in EVERY species living on land or bird of the air, then there is support for the flood. It does not prove the flood happened but it would be very strong support.

If on the other hand that genetic marker is NOT there, then the Flood is refuted.

That genetic marker is NOT there.

The Biblical Flood has been refuted.


But the point remains.

How do you explain the fact that many different and independent dating methods all give us the same results.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by archaeologist, posted 08-13-2010 6:33 PM archaeologist has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by archaeologist, posted 08-14-2010 3:17 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32723
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 124 of 153 (574140)
08-14-2010 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by archaeologist
08-14-2010 3:17 AM


archaeologist writes:

jar writes:

If the flood actually happened we would see a bottleneck in EVERY species of animal living on the land and EVERY bird and EVERY one of the bottlenecks show up in the SAME historical time period.

really?? how would you know there would be a bottleneck if all the species were destroyed and only a few saved? where would you get their records to see such an event?

This is a classic example of the errors you make. You need to learn to read the information people post to try to help you.

We know there was a bottleneck because the Bible told us so. It tells us all the critters that were on land or flew (at a minimum, since there are two and maybe even three different flood myths all mixed up together I am taking the example that didn't kill off all the things in the sea. If that is considered then the bottle neck signature would be even bigger and more obvious.) were killed except the critters taken on the ark. If that is true then everything living today must be descended from those ark populations.

We see the same thing in looking at the data from uranium dating. You simply refuse to actually consider the very good information people are kind enough to provide for you.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by archaeologist, posted 08-14-2010 3:17 AM archaeologist has not yet responded

  
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