PROOF OF GOD

Is there some reason that the ancient egyptians could not have gone out at night, looked up at the sky and pointed to the pole star? That is all that would be needed to align the shaft with the star. They would need no math, no science and not even needed to know that it was North. It inch came from the latin uncio meaning one twelth, which related to the royal foot. It was approximately the length of the second digit of the first finger of the royal right hand and one twelth of the royal foot.And so far we have not dealt with who built the Pyramid. IYRC, that was to wait until the issues in the first Group of questions was resolved. If you would like to start a tread on who built the Great Pyramid I would be happy to try to show that it was the Ancient Egyptians.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Nosy,This recalls to me a t.v. show I watched on the pyramids maybe 10 years ago. back when I had a t.v. It might have been on the Discovery channel. I really don't remember. I do recall that the archeologists addressed this pi thing with a solution that made some sense though I don't recall the detail. I think they were showing that pi could show up in the measurements of the pyramid even though the egyptians didn't know what pi was.What they did was demonstrate the use of a wheel with a marked rim to roll along and measure out length for the sides of the base. Well, using a wheel would tend to as an artifact introduce a pi factor into the measurements.Does anyone here recall this show, or better something published by pyramid buffs, those interested in reconstructing how the pyraminds were built?peace,
lfen

If the designer of a structure deliberately designed a room where the long side was 3.14 times the short side, I could say the intent was to present numeric evidence that the designer understood the ratio of the diameter to the circumference of a circle, regardless what the room was used for.In Hugh Harleston's case, he found the Mayans had deliberately built and spaced their structures using a basic unit of measure he renamed the "hunab". He also found that specific multiples of the hunab represented selective astronomical relationships.As for ancient man not knowing anything about astronomy, I suggest reading the research of Livio Stecchini, here,
Metrum.org Is For Salethe origin of British measures,
Metrum.org Is For Sale
and the determination of earth size by the ancients,
Metrum.org Is For SaleIn one of the Egyptian tombs there was a ceiling (now in Paris) that included the full Zodiac (Dendera Zodiac) with all the major stars noted, and the full Southern Zodiac was not visible from any part of Egypt.The Great Pyramid, in its damaged condition is not a very good example to try to prove an absolute. There is considerable evidence that ancient man had excellent knowlege of earth size, their position on the earth, and more astronomical knowledge 1000s of years before the so-called enlightened Europeans.This message has been edited by FrankM, 07-31-2004 12:10 AM

Hey Jar,I agree with you on this. This thread is dredging up old memories from my t.v. watching days. I think this may have been a National Geographic program. Again if anyone can recall or add to this please do.This was a program demonstrating a theory someone had about the arrangements of all the pryamids. He showed that they were in the same relationship as the stars in Orion. Also some of the narrow corridors would have been aligned with stars such as Sirius I believe. At any rate by this guy's theories the builders of the pyramids were very familiar with the night sky.And think how much brighter that sky was and how much more important to people without light pollution and GPS. Native Americans were well aware of the pole star also. So ancient people though not having knowledge of astronomy did have very practical knowledge of the night sky.peace,
lfen

The Ancient Egyptians were familar with Pi but since they worked in fractions, there was some inaccuracy. They certainly understood spheers and volume and could perform any and all of the mathmatics needed to build structures such as the Great Pyramid.Check out this link to the Moscow, Rhind and Berlin Papyrus. Egyptian Mathematics.These were copies of much older documents made in about 1800BCE but show that they were perfectly capable of all the needed mathematics. In particular, check out Problem 50 in the Rhind document, how to determine Pi.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Willowtree I used the online planetarium called Your Sky at the following website.Your SkyIf you go to the site scroll down till you see the "Set for nearby city" Click on this.I selected Cairo Egypt as the nearest city shown.Click on Cairo and you will arrive at another sky map.If you look in the upper section of the map you will see a small "a" symbol above the constellation Camelopardalis.Click again on this "a" and a new map will arrive showing the immediate region around the star Polaris in real time. Polaris is presently less than a degree away from the north celestial pole {NCP} which is signified by the blue cross symbol next to Polaris.Now ,in order to clarify things we are going to enhance the contrast and at the same time roll the clock back over 4000 years and see the sky for 2141 B.C. Scroll down to Date and Time and select Universal Time ,then we will erase 2004 and in its place put -2141.Next scroll farther down until you see the term Colour scheme under display options select Black on white background. This makes it easy to spot relative distances.Now scroll back up and click on Update.You will now find yourself looking at the sky as it appeared in 2141 B.C. and you can see the small "a" {Alpha Draconis} and it is more than 2.5 degrees away from the cross which as you recall signifies the NCP. Now, Thuban was the pole star at one time and probably exceeded Polaris in proximity to the NCP but not untill you go even farther back in time.Go to Date and time and insert -2700 at hit Update.See what I mean?At this moment I apologize for taking this route however I could not get a copy of the star maps and simply post them as I intended originally.So now that I have given you the source for this you can see for yourself the impossibility off relying on the 2141 date and that while the fact that Thuban was indeed once the pole star it was not at the time we are disputing but in fact 6 centuries earlier.Now if you would please present the star maps your sources used to establish their claims I will be delighted to see them presented to us all.This message has been edited by sidelined, 07-30-2004 11:48 PM

IOW a website and its content and your interpretation overrides multiple specific sources that I have named.If what you claim is actually true then you would of shot me down a long time ago.I have four specific sources who say the pole star/North star was the Dragon Star in 2141 BC, and they specifically say that Alcyone of the Pleiades was also in alignment with the Scored Lines. They also are all in agreement that only in 2141 BC did this alignment occurr.I do not know anything about reading "star maps" - this is why we rely on and have sources.Please provide specific refuting sources of the claims of my sources or otherwise your claim is amateur and subjective.

But all we have is the say so of your sources. When there is any doubt or controversy the actual information and evidence has to be examined. The closer to that we can get the better. That's why I'd like to see picture of the GP sockets for example.I don't care what your sources say I want to know why they say it. Based on what input, assumptions and calculations. Then we can see if we can determine why there is an apparent discrepancy.You have yet to offer anything that is real support. Hand drawn maps, assertions, impossible precision and nothing more so far. Spell out the details.

The claim is center of world's land area - your constant refusal to acknowledge this basic and generic fact gives the appearance that the claim doesn't exist.The Smyth coords AND the map clearly evidence the claim.You have your view of how this claim should be evidenced. You assert your data refutes Smyth - fine. How does anyone verify this without having to take your word on it ?Can you provide evidence and source that supports you ?No you cannot. It is your subjective opinion vs Smyth.How curious that nobody thought like you to refute Smyth ?The only other information about the claim I have is: EDIT: This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 07-31-2004 05:11 PM

Where do you get this idea? The claim I’m dealing with is the longest land meridian as first mentioned by yourself way, way back in post 72. You’ve repeated it in your Rutherford quote. I’m looking at these claims one by one, but you have so far failed to deal with the meridian issue. Sigh Can you show me which part of the map shows how long the meridian actually is? If you like I can draw some maps with random meridians marked and claim they are the longest — they would constitute as much evidence as Smyth’s, ie. none. Because they CAN verify it. I have provided enough information for anyone to check my figures. Smyth hasn’t even supplied a total length for the meridian. I already have. Are you now pretending this evidence is not there? The very same thing you often accuse others of? Correction, it is my repeatable, evidenced claim derived from professional mapping software using NASA data, presented with methodology vs Smyth’s unevidenced bare assertion. What, you mean to get off my backside and actually check it for myself, rather than rely on google? Well I’m guessing most posters don’t use GIS where they work, although Ned did supply similar data from a less specialized mapping product. Demonstrably not the case. Yet another site repeating the claim with no evidence to support it. Not even a total length.The LLM claim remains refuted.

Hi Percy ! I said "well outside", then you say "they're only a yard or so away".We have both established a socket stone outer perimeter THAT the casing stone perimeter as-built to be smaller than the "yard or so away".If the casing stones eventually meet the socket stones - then okay.The point is that they do not reach flush, that the total "yard or so perimeter" EQUALS a 286.1 PI" larger perimeter.This exact figure is verified at least three other times in the GP IN THE SAME CONTEXT OF ERROR OR "OFF-NESS".BTW: Go here and see how Petrie embraced Smyth: When this exact figure surfaced it became apparent that the Architect was indicating something. This indication (to put it mildy) has already been evidenced and explained and I will not re-argue unless you request.And the angle IS NOT 53 degrees - it is 51 degrees 51' 14.3" I have claimed that the socket stones create a perimeter outside of the casing perimeter = to a larger perimeter of 286.1 PI".I have posted a diagram displaying this and the various figures of all the perimeters involved. It is evidence that the as-built is slightly smaller than what was intended BECAUSE of the outer socket perimeter being 286.1 PI" larger.It is called "full-design" for lack of a better term.The fact of the 286.1 figure and its appearance elsewhere in a context similar cannot be ignored - this is deliberate intelligent design for a purpose. The purpose has been evidenced and explained in full. It is an assumption BASED entirely on the only angle of slope existing - the as-built angle.The only relevance of the hypothetical "full-design" is the impossible to ignore figure of 286.1All the pieces fit together, that is the appearance of 286.1 and its rectification in the Grand Gallery is intended to be viewed and understood as a whole - THIS IS WHY THE EXACT FIGURE OF 286.1 AND ITS EXISTENCE THROUGH-OUT THE GP WAS INTENTIONALLY BUILT THIS WAY.You must postulate WHY this precise figure and its context of appearance is "accident".OR you can ignore all of this, THEN this is silently conceding the point. You are mindlessly asserting the angle would be different.The angle would remain as-built and then the GP would overall be 286.1 PI" larger, that is each course (all 203 of them) would be 286.1 PI" larger WITH the same pi angle.You are assuming the angle would be different - based upon ?Detractors are silenced by the as-built angle because no ancient human knew about pi, unless of course, you want to admit the ancients were smarter than us and then this directly contradicts evolutionary scenario.But it doesn't matter. The GP was built according to pi angle.The brown slice subsequently provides dimensionality. Its chief purpose is to visualize the data accompanying the color diagram. This data and the brown slice, both display, in tandemn, the larger claimed full-design socket perimeter projected up (brown slice) which accounts for the dimensions of a capstone based upon the full-design.The diagram and data and brown slice evidence the 286.1 PI" and its specific relevance to the missing capstone and the subsequent subtraction of the capstones dimensions which confirm the height of 5448.736 and its rouding up to 5449.

This debate contains the measurements of Rutherford.If an opponent cannot find them then just say so and I will create a post and link the posts with the wanted data which will then prove Rutherford's measurements have been posted/provided.

This claim completely avoids the content of the post you responded to.The moment I offer a claim without corroborating source it is dismissed as unsupported assertion.When opponent does it - it is given an exemption to the evidence and source standard.

You're right that Lindum skipped over the equal land areas issue. That hasn't been dealt with yet. All we have for that is an imprecise hand drawn map. Since the Nile Delta map appears to be in error there is reason to be uncertain of any of the other maps. The calculation of the land areas isn't all that easy. We are still waiting for you to supply the details of those calculations then we will dig into them. At the moment there is no support for the land area claim. We see no reason for going to the effort of calculations if you have none. LOL, a claim without corroborating source is an unsupported assertion. Really what is needed isn't an assertion by any source that isn't very useful. What is needed is HOW the source arrived at the answer. We have suppied details of an LLM calculation. They show that your sources assertion is wrong! Until the method that your source used is shown we don't know why there is a difference. What I am becoming more and more sure of is your souce looked at a rough map and bloody well guessed. And they guessed wrong.For those claims which we are dealing with we have given details of the calculations. Petrie's measurements are described with great detail and care. Your sources offer no matching information. Do you simply not understand what is needed? Did you look at Lindum's LLM calculations? Do you understand how they are done?The north star is another case in point. The exact details of how it was arrived at are given. No such information is available from your side. Until that is forthcoming you don't have a leg to stand on. Saying you don't know how to read star maps and dropping it with that is laughable.Now let's take a simple one: the LLM. At least we can all look at world maps and make measurements on them. We don't have to fly to egypt to look at the casings and socket stones. We don't have to do much more than add numbers up - none of that fancy 'trig' stuff. Let's just take a simple one and see if we can settle it. If you can't handle that one then the others will be way beyond you.Should we start a thread on each one of these so Lindum doesn't miss which one is being talked about? Would that help everyone focus?Let's have another go at this with the simple example: what evidence have you offered for the LLM and what evidence has the other side offered? Can you state that with some clarity? You claimed that there is some double standard regarding evidence. Does it apply in this case? If you think so please show it.

There is a possiblility that the Pryamid of Giza being the middle of the earth is where Adams body was buried after the flood, for Adam said he was to be buried in the middle of the earth, in the second book of Adam and Eve, did not Joesph return to Egypt with the babe Jesus warned by an angel, so how did not Salvation come out of Eygpt, kjv Matthew 2:15 it seems to me to be a part of prophecy, making one wonder about the real reasonings of the pryamid, if its the roof Seth built 6,570-6,458 years ago, or if it was built after the flood by Noahs Son Shem, 5,848 years ago, when was it built, and for what purpose, it is quite interesting that its located in the middle of the earth, and that Out of Egypt have I called my Son. kjv Matthew 2:15.P.S. It is quite interesting that the Great Giza Pyramid was coated with limestone, they say it could be seen all the way to Israel before the limestone covering was pilfered away, with the stars to guide Shem and the pyramid's reflected light, might well have been the spot on the earth Shem took Adam to be buried, fullfilling the prophecy given by Jared in respect to Noah the Flood, and Noah's unborn son Shem, etc...Forgotten Books of Eden: Second Book of Adam and EveChapter VIII.Adam's remarkable last words. He predicts the Flood. He exhorts his offspring to good.
He reveals certain mysteries of life.11 "But, 0 my son, let those whom it will leave out from among your children at that time, take my body with them out of this cave; and when they have taken it with them, let the oldest among them command his children to lay my body in a ship until the flood has been assuaged, and they come out of the ship.12 Then they shall take my body and lay it in the middle of the earth, shortly after they have been saved from the waters of the flood.13 "For the place where my body shall be laid, is the middle of the earth; God shall come from thence and shall save all our kindred.Chapter XXI.Jared dies in sorrow for his sons who had gone astray. A prediction of the Flood.8 "And unto him of you who shall be left, 0 my sons, shall the Word of God come, and when he goes out of this land he shall take with him the body of our father Adam, and shall lay it in the middle of the earth, the place in which salvation shall be wrought."9 Then Noah said unto him, "Who is he of us that shall be left?"10 And Jared answered, "Thou art he that shall be left. And thou shalt take the body of our father Adam from the cave, and place it with thee in the ark when the flood comes.11 "And thy son Shem, who shall come out of thy loins, he it is who shall lay the body of our father Adam in the middle of the earth, in the place whence salvation shall come."This message has been edited by whatever, 07-31-2004 11:46 PM