Why did God forgive our sins?

The cleansing of man's sins is a remdial solution to bring man back to God's eternal purpose. Before sin was a problem God had an eternal plan for man. The entrance of sin caused man to veer away from the purpose for which he is created.Since sin causes brings in separation from God sin had to be dealt with. The separation had to be dealt with so that it would be removed.On one hand Christ came to deal with the problem of that separation. On the other hand Christ best exemplifies what the eternal plan of God for man is - to be united and one with God so that Man is divinized, deified, glorfied, and expresses the uncreated Divine Being within his created human vessel.In short Jesus Christ is not only the Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ is also what God meant by Human Being. He will make His saved people like Himself. All those who are brought into union with Christ enter into a process the culmination of which will eventually yield them sinless.Positionally they are justified forever. Dispositionally their souls and characters undergo a transformation that eventually brings them to be like Christ. This is to also bring man into his true identity. The foreign element of sin is removed.The parasitic and leechlike sin nature is removed and man comes into his divinely created purpose to be filled with God and mingled with God - a God-man, just as Jesus is a God-man. We can certainly understand enough to cooperate with God. If we were simply a chair or tree or something without our own wills, it might be that easy. But God created a creature which has the potential to cause Him considerable trouble. That is because we have our own free wills. This causes God some problems. But He prefered to create that kind of creature.The destiny of the saved man is not really heaven. It is more a Person rather than a place. You should think of the destiny of salvation is to transform man into being Christ like - a human filled within with the living God and mingled with God.The Bible closes with a symbol called New Jerusalem. The meaning of this symbol is the total mingling and incorporation of the Triune God into humanity to be one "organic" expression.If this does not make sense to you simply think of God wanting to mass produce Jesus Christ into millions upon millions of saved people. And in the process He forms them into a "city". This city matches God and is even God Himself. But she is God dispensed into humanity to be the counterpart and Wife / Bride of the uncreated Divine Being. God's eternal purpose is to dispense Himself into man that man might be organically united and mingled with God.Christ is the universal mingling of God and man. God's eternal purpose is to mass produce Christ the standard model of the perfect mingling of God and man.It is for this purpose that we exist and why God created a universe.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Are you suggesting that God should just allow a creation to exist in which unrighteousness and sin simply run wild forever? We endlessly commit our crimes against one another? Really happy place, huh? No misery there?You imagine that as a joyful existence? You imagine a Great Permissive God who is indifferent towards justice, peace, and goodness, simply allows every being to have or not have any moral value.How does that work, that God could keep everyone happy in that kind of place?What about those who want nothing to do with their Creator? They need their own place. You imagine that the Creator should just lump them all together, those who love Him and those who hate Him, in one happy existence?How does that work?Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

If you are appealing to God's ultimate authority by asking me "God is God , no?" then I would turn the question around to you. God is God, no? Then how He has done what He has done and in the timing with which He accomplishes it, us under His authority. No?If God were working with simply rocks and sticks, then there would be a much simplier situation. Under His own authroity He has created creatures which because of their wills, have to potential to cause Him a lot of trouble.You are totally free to think this: "Okay, God I acknowledge that you are the ultimate authority here. But because I don't agree with how you did things, I don't want anything to do with you."If that is your philosophy, go ahead and let that be your reason to not want Him.I count myself as loving a living God and not just agreeing with a "system". You say "I think there are errors in the system." I on the other hand am attracted to a living God. He is more than just a "system" to me.Basically you are saying, "Why is it not the New Jerusalem all along? Since it was not the New Jerusalem all along with no need for decision, will, salvation, I count the system as faulty. So I'll take my chances having nothing to do with the Originator of the system. I think I'll fair better without any God."Run with that then. It will not stop New Jerusalem and the new heaaven and new earth from coming about. I don't see what it will do for you. Maybe it will give you some perverse sense of independence or superiority to God. Maybe you can get a rush off of that while you are being judged under the wrath of God.I think I won't go that way. I think I'll say "Here, the situation I find myself in. And here is the way of salvation graciously provided by God. I will choose this way of salvation. " You can let it say to you what you will let it say to you.I am very moved in my heart by what Jesus has done for me. I don't want to engage in your sport - "If I think about it hard enough I can arrive at faults in the system and excuse myself from His offer of salvation."Is it worth it? Maybe its not worth it. Maybe in your limited understanding you err in judgement as to the heart of God, the intention and motive of God.Chaldron, I am not above being deceived. I think you also could be deceived. You have to eventually trust someone. You can trust your skeptical websites and your athiest and speptical liturature. You can trust Jeffrey Lowder or John Stills or Bertrand Russell. You can be dazzled by their logic.Me? I think I am going to trust Jesus Christ. Somehow He has opened up a door in my heart and in my mind to be willing to talk to Him and hear Him. I think I'll trust Jesus.All due respect. You're a man. You decide. I have decided to try to teach people how to believe. If you want to devote your time to teaching people how not to believe in Jesus, that is your choice.It will not stop New jerusalem from coming. And she is already here and growing. I don't know His mind in this completely. I do know what His covenant is. That is what is important. And His covenant calls for my decision. I choose to trust His love, His Person, His plan and His timing.My heart would have to be made of stone not to be touched by the sacrifice of the Son of God for me. If that thought is enough to arm you with good reasons before God on the last day, then that's what you have to tell Him.My gut feel is that that will not give you peace within. You will have to arm yourself with more and more excuses. There are not enough reasons to give you the peace you need to be ready to speak to Christ.Personally, any ego rush I may get from saying "Look at me everybody. I can find faults with God's system !" is not enough to harden my heart towards what Jesus has done for me.I am constrained by the love of Christ. And I don't trust my own rebellious rationals in this matter. I feel safer to trust what the Bible tells me as a discloser of God's heart and motives toward me.I am simply more impressed with Jesus Christ than with hard mysteries about the way the whole plan of God has unfolded and its timing.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Some of us get into this situation. We want God's blessings. But we don't want Him Himself.We love for Him to provide our sunshine, give our water, give our food, bless us with all kinds of things. But we do not want God Himself as a Person.We love His things. But we do not love Him for Himself.The poster above seems to want God to do or have done everything. But will God say to him one day "Yes, you wanted Me to do everything. But you didn't want Me."When will we love Him for Himself? Jesus the Son of Man the Son of God could say that even though He be tortured to death and be under the wrath of God, He loved the Father for Himself.He did it for us. At least He led the way.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The rules which I think are most important are two:1.) Jesus is resurrected and alive and in a form in which He can live within His followers."the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)2.) His followers are to receive Him and abide in Him. They are to be in a living union with Him so that He lives out His life again on earth, but this time from within and in union with His followers.Perhaps the most important exhortation in the New Testament is here:"I am the true vine, and My Father is the husbandmand ... Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in me.

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I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing." (See John 15:1-5)This abiding in the resurrected and living Christ and allowing Him to abide in us is a mutual incorporation of lives. In a blended way the Christ who is alive then can mingle His reaction and actions with those of the believer/abider. This is the essence of the Christian life.No, we should not think that we have 700 OT commandments supplemted by several hundred more NT commandments. Rather the chief thing is to realize that Christ is living and that He can live within His believers just as the life of the vine can flow into the attached branches. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I read that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoseoever would believe into Him should not perish but have eternal life.Where does it say that God does not love the "whoseovers" who decide that they don't want anything to do with the Son of God ? For one reason or another they want nothing to do with God's Son. But I never read that they are not loved because of that choice.You seem to be saying that the love of God would FORCE them to be in His kingdom against their decision. Is that how you view God's love should operate ? He should FORCE them that do not believe into the Son of God to HAVE the Son of God anyway?The eternal life is just the Son of God Himself, in case you didn't realize it. So how is divine love manifested in that God forces someone to have Christ as divine life when that person wants to refuse to have Christ as divine life?I am talking here about clear cases of the one deciding not to believe into Christ, he or she rejects Christ for himself/ herself.Perhaps you argue that if God really loved those who reject Christ and His salvation HE would not allow them to perish.I wonder if love means that God must not judge sin which He clearly informs us is an abomination to Him. So you think that love should prevent God from judgment - a love which accepts forever rebellion, transgression, iniquity, and revolt.Do you also feel that the love of man for fellowmen should empty all the prisons, and for love's sake, let every criminal go unpunished ? If I break into your home and slay your family to steal a TV, and we go to court, what should be my defense? Should I have my attorney argue that if the judge really LOVES me he should simply let me walk free?Perhaps you will object that the sins are no so serious. Keep in mind that the thief, the rapist, the extortioner, the kidnapper all fail to see why their particular crime is taken so seriously. If they were to write the laws, they, no doubt, would place far lesser emphasis on the justice due concerning their particular crime.The thief would legislate that stealing is of course not too bad of a crime. In fact it is perfectly acceptable behavior.And how does a happy and peaceful kingdom exists when some of the participants accept the King and others reject Him and His authority? How is it lumping them altogether forever is a harmonious and blessed situation?I don't see that God stops ever loving the sinner. I see that God must bear the sadness that some out of their own decision want nothing to do with His righteousness and His reign of eternal life.Or do you feel that God should GIVE UP His rightoeusness to be PERMISSIVE that anything goes in His creation. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I hope you are not advocating that seekers of the truth in the Bible throw up their hands, deemed it all hopeless, and ignore it all going on with our Godless lives. That won't do.Besides, didn't you hear that the Holy Spirit would lead the disciples into all the truth. No believer need dispair.Now let's look at Matthew 5:1: When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up further into the mountain. Those who really wanted to hear had to follow Him up higher. It is significant I think.The following "sermon" should be regarded as teachings to those who had already made the discision to be His disciples. They are not the crowd generally. He went up from the crowd and the ones who followed Him up had to come up from the general crowd. So I submit that we should regard this "sermon" as directed to those serious to be His disciples. In today's terms we could say those who are already Christians by regeneration.Having said that, the Holy Spirit is not that rigid that something said here could not be used by God to touch the heart of anyone who has an ear to hear. There is no reason to make a rule that non-believers should not read any portion of the Bible.But I think the so called "sermon on the mount" is intended not for the general crowd but for His disciples. It was not a large crowd. The crowd was at the foot of the mountain. The disciples who were really interested came up with Him to a higher place to hear His teaching.Now the context of Matthew is that we should repent to God FOR the kingdom. The kingdom is a realm in which God can excercises His authority and enact His reign. This call to repent for the kingdom is first proclaimed by John the Baptist and then repeated by Jesus Himself.Repenting for the kingdom is a little more specific than the call to repent in order to be saved from hell. It is to repent for not living under the reign of God. Yes man needs to repent in order not to be judged in eternal perdition. But at any point AFTER a man is saved it may be necessary to repent for not living under God's reign and God's rule.So a disciple, even a long time disciple, one who is eternally saved, may need to repent for the kingdom. He or she may need to repent for not daily living under the authority of God who has saved them. I think you should get the best results from the Gospel of Matthew if you view it in this regard.I would also note that this gospel of Matthew is the first in the list to read. It is like the welcome mat of the whole New Testament, the sign on the door. We need to repent for not living daily under the reign of God. All of us need to repent. We need to repent for the kingdom.And specifically the disciples need to know the basic constitution of the kingdom of the heavens as outlined starting in Matthew chapter 5:1 through 7:29.Let's see how we can emphasize this more in your examples of exegetical probleems. These are fair questions. It helps to consult disciples with experience. YOu should never underestimate the help you could get from disciples with more experience. Lexicons and word studies are good. Experience is needful also.The narrow gate relates to higher demand of the kingdom of the heavens than the demand of the old covenant. It is narrower to be concerned not only with outward practice but inward motive. The teaching of Christ in chapters 5-7 deal with the most inward motives and not just the outward appearance. This is more narrow.To not commit adultery might be difficult but broad. To not look at a woman to lust after her in your imagination so as to commit psychological adultery is more narrow.Jesus is emphasizing that His kingdom of the heavens is more narrow in that it touches the innermost motive of the heart rather than just the outward action.Self love, self glory, the worldly vanity, the old man, the Adamic nature cannot pass through. There is left no room for self pity, self glory, self exaltation. It is a narrow way that excludes play acting and hypocrisy.Only that which corresponds to God's will can enter the gate and walk the way. It is not that the disciples walk the way and THEN enter the gate. It is that they enter the gate first and then walk the way. That is the way of living under the reign of God, living for the kingdom of the heavens. That is the kingdom whose SOURCE is from heaven and not from the earth. He is the King reigning in the life of the disciples from the heavens.To enter in through the gate is to begin walking on the life long way.More could be said. But let me move on. The road is the life long way of living under the authority of the King. He reigns in the lives of the disciples from the heavens. It is a life therefore of the kingdom whose origin and source is from heaven - the kingdom of the heavens.To be ruled by the heavenly king leads to a life of the highest standard of righteous behavior on the earth. Not just the outward action is right. The innermost motive, the inmost intention must be refined into purity. Only Christ can wrought this kind of life in a person.Life here refers to the ever-blessed condition of the kingdom. It is a realm and sphere of God's life dispensed into the disciples. It comes in and it grows. It saturates and regulates. It blends with a person's personality. It becomes life to them, the ZOE divine life of God dispensed into His disciples.In this age it is a hidden life but a real life. In the age to come it will be a manifested life in glory. If we live in its reality today we will enjoy its open manifested glory when Christ returns. Now many times only God will see. But if the disciples are faithful all will see this inward life blossom out into a glorious sphere of glorified human beings.Much needs to be said about this. The concept that you must understand is that Christ's kingdom works from the inside out. The kernel, the core of a man's being must be secured. Then it works its way out from the nucleus of his being. The reward of the kingdom is the manifestation of this glorious life in an outward way for all the world to see, when Jesus comes back.That glorious expression of the divine life will be a reward in addition to eternal redemption. To receive eternal life is a gift. To enter into the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens is a reward based on faithfulness to LIVE the life that has been planted within.I would point out though that even without knowing so much what Jesus is saying a seeking person could get the general idea. He should live unto Jesus. It is a narrow way, a contricted way. It is not an easy broad way upon which many will walk.There is no excuse for someone to come before Christ on that day with a life still steeped in sin, to say "Well Jesus. I simply could not understand what the narrow way was. I didn't know whether you meant eternal life or heaven or what. So I just forgot about such confusing teachings and continued to live my sinful life. Sorry Lord. You should have been a little more clear, THEN I would have been more careful."I don't think that will fly. I think a better reply would be "Lord Jesus, I certainly was not sure WHAT on earth you meant there. However, it kind of gave me a sober sense that there are consequences for living a sloppy Christian life. So even though I wasn't sure how to interpret that passage it caused me to seek you deligently. It forced me to draw closer to you, just in case. So I prayed more and sought to please you more in my reactions and actions.

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Even though I wasn't too sure of the right exegetical meaning of that passage Lord Jesus, I am thankful that you said it. It enfluenced me to take you seriously. And that couldn't be bad."Maybe I'll talk about "destruction" in the next post.Prayerfully meditate on this a little bit, please. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

That is true. No. I don't care to have any proselytes.But I do thrill to know that someday someone might meet Jesus Christ because of something I said.Guilty as charged.

Destruction is to lose the soul For Jesus taught whoever wants to save his soul shall lose it. Whoever loses his soul for Christ's sake shall find it.This may not be restricted to eternal punishment. The soul life is the independent self loving life, self centered life, centered on the enjoyment of the world, the flesh, and the vanity of this passing age.Since the God rejecting world as we know it going to pass away, indeed, be destroyed, and since it is going to be replaced with a world centered on Christ and God, the soul attached in its effections and loves to this present world will be deprived its enjoyment.This will be a destruction of the self life. This will be losing yourself. This will be to be deprived of what you have feasted on in the way of enjoyment in an indulgent way. Christ was set aside. The need for salvation and sanctification were spurned. Instead the person enjoyed the self rather than the Spirit of Christ.When He comes that person will lose his soul. It may not be eternal perdition. But it will not be pleasant.For the Christian, he should consider this as being forced to go to summer school when others enjoy a wonderful graduation. You still have to learn your lessons. But the flavor will not be the same.Suppose you are a Christian and you have a grudge against another Christian brother. You actually enjoy not forgiving. You enjoy keeping that axe grinded. You are saving your soul and shoning the kingdom. When Christ returns you will lose your soul. You will learn a harsh lesson to forgive your brother from your heart.If on the other hand you deny your grudge, you forgive that offending brother in the name of Jesus, that will cause you to lose the enjoyment of holding a grudge against him today. But in the future you will gain your soul. You will enjoy a reward of reigning with Christ in the new world.It is better to lose today and gain then. It is inferior to gain today and lose in the end.To lose the soul when Jesus comes back will be counted as a destruction of your soul life. It may not be eternal punishment but it will not be pleasant.To lose the soul today is simply to enioy Christ today. You deny your self enjoyment and turn to enjoy the living Jesus. Unless you have receive Jesus as your indwelling Lord and Savior, this makes no sense.The Christian life is a life of enjoying Jesus in every kind of situation. He is living and enjoyable to be one with. You enjoy Jesus and lose your soul today. Then when He comes you will find the delight of your soul in His kingdom in the new world.Our enjoyment of Christ should start. And it should deepen and deepen. The GRACE of the Lord is actually the ENJOYMENT of the Lord. Not true.The non-believer will perish forever. That is really the ultimate destruction.The sloppy believer may undergo a destruction in losing their self centered soul life. But that punishment is temporary. It cannot last longer than one thousand years. It may be some portion of that. I am not too sure.But I do know that the eternal age does not begin as soon as Jesus returns to the earth. There is first the 1,000 year millennial kingdom. After that 1,000 years THEN there is the eternal age of the new heaven and the new earth.The former - the 1,000 year kingdom, is a REWARD for willing cooperation. The latter, the eternal age of the new heaven and the new earth, is a GIFT.Before the enjoyment of the GIFT is the REWARD set by God for an incentive. That is once having received the GIFT of eternal life, will that recipient cooperate with Christ's santification process to transform them.The REWARD is recompense for work and is temporary. The GIFT is eternal and is free.We cannot improve upon God's way. Some Christian teachers recognize that God can deal with His naughty children in this age. Some other Christian teachers realize that He can ALSO deal with some sloppy ones in the next age to come before the eternal age.Some Christian teachers recognize that in the age to come there are degrees of reward for cooperation to believers. Some other Christian teachers realize, correspondingly, there are also degrees of discipline to disciples who were not cooperative.Matthew's gospel has a number of warning to disciples who will not cooperate in the age of grace. This quetion was not directed to me. I am submitting comments though.A Christian can be dead right or livingly wrong. The right interpretation does not garuantee a cooperative heart. Nor does a wrong interpretation insist that one is not right in heart before God.Christ wants to conform us to His image. Of course it is good to have sound interpretations. But one has a conscience in the Holy Spirit. The way one talks to his spouse, treats his fellow beleivers, treats his fellow man, conducts himself, and lives can be sanctified even if one has some wrong interpretations.It is the living PERSON of Jesus Christ that the heart must be fully turned to. We can do that in spite of the fact that we have varying interpretations and understandings of passages.We can be wrong and be livingly wrong in the Holy Spirit. And we can be right but in a spiritually dead way - "dead right".The safest way forward is to keep telling the Lord Jesus "Lord, I just love you. I love you Lord Jesus. I simply love you." Loving the Lord Jesus is the safest way forward. We can have different understanding of Bible passages but intensly love the Lord Jesus and enjoy His ever present indwelling.You must have read First Corinthians 13 on the greatest of these is love.