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Author Topic:   We know there's a God because...
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 12 of 256 (458104)
02-27-2008 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
02-27-2008 9:05 AM


Re: DIY god
Hi Percy
Percy writes:
The world is otherwise just as we find it today.
The world and especially the US would not be as it is today.
The US was populated by people leaving religious persecution in European countries. They came to America to be able to worship God without interference from the Government.
This nation was founded by God fearing men on the principals they found in the Bible.
Take that away and what would you have?
If memory serves me correctly when we had Bible reading and prayer in school this was the most feared nation in the world.
We removed those because it offended a few people.
Now this nation is the laughing stock of the world.
So Percy we would have pretty much what we have today.
People would believe that they are their own God and do as they please.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 02-27-2008 9:05 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 02-27-2008 10:12 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 14 by mark24, posted 02-27-2008 10:41 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 15 by Rahvin, posted 02-27-2008 11:29 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 43 by Jazzns, posted 02-28-2008 5:50 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 44 of 256 (458393)
02-28-2008 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Jazzns
02-28-2008 5:50 PM


Re: DIY god
Hi Jazzns,
Jazzns writes:
Other than that though, you basically concede Percy's point. God as he exists in the Bible is only knowable via the Bible. Not that there is any problem with that though. I think the problem only arises when funamentalist Christians start to say silly stuff like God can be proven or that articles of faith can be expressed with science.
Jazzns the problem is not with Christians defined this way Christ Like.
The problem is with a bunch of so called christians who know not God or His Son who are of their father the devil and the works of their father they are doing.
Then everybody else is their own God so they do as they please and many do a lot better than those so called christians.
BTW I don't claim to be a Christian.
I do claim to be a Born Again Child of the King.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Jazzns, posted 02-28-2008 5:50 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 56 of 256 (458482)
02-29-2008 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Percy
02-29-2008 7:49 AM


Re-World around Us
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
Well, what if we lowered the bar a little and didn't ask for completely certainty. Just by examining the world around us, is there anything that would lead people to suspect that there is a God?
I could think of a lot of things but I will mention 3 here.
Hawking states, "If the rate of expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size."
Odds of this happening by chance 10^128.
If the gravitational force were altered by 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent, neither Earth nor our Sun would exist.
Odds of this happening by chance 10^128.
For physical life to exist, the mass density of the universe must be fine-tuned to better than one part in a trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion.
Odds of this happening by chance 10^128.
You have better odds of buying 100 Power Ball tickets and winning all 100 Power Ball lotteries consecutively.
All together there are over a 100 finely tuned constants that have beat those odds. If any one failed we would not exist.
It seems like anyone could look at that kind of scientific data and come to the conclusion that there was something other than chance at work.
But I suppose to many those odds would not matter because that would point to something higher than man which is unacceptable.
God Bless,
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 02-29-2008 7:49 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by cavediver, posted 02-29-2008 9:11 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 59 of 256 (458495)
02-29-2008 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by cavediver
02-29-2008 9:11 AM


Re-World around Us
Hi cavediver,
cavediver writes:
As ever, this is all completely wrong...
But let's save time and assume it's correct.
Remember Hawking said if expansion one second after the big bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million,
either way. Smaller or larger. In other words it had to be exact.
So what do you think the odds would be of this happening by chance?
Then what would the scientific odds be of this happening by chance?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by cavediver, posted 02-29-2008 9:11 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Rahvin, posted 02-29-2008 12:15 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 63 of 256 (458509)
02-29-2008 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Rahvin
02-29-2008 12:15 PM


Re-World around Us
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes:
It did happen exactly that way.
We are here and that is proof enough.
There are other alternatives.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Rahvin, posted 02-29-2008 12:15 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Rahvin, posted 02-29-2008 2:05 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 94 of 256 (458587)
03-01-2008 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Rahvin
02-29-2008 2:05 PM


Re-World around Us
Hi Rahvin,
Rahvin writes:
How many possibilities were there for the expansion, ICANT? Do you know? I can tell you that we know of exactly one possibility - this one. But we have no idea whatsoever whether there were any other possibilities. We could be dealing with a 1 in 2 chance, a 1 in 6 chance, a 1 in 100,000 chance....or a 1 in 1 chance. We simply don't know. The probability will be limited only by those variables that define the expansion - do you know what those variables are? I don't.
I don't either but the odds I quoted have been put forth by Scientist.
Inflation was just one of a 122 consants that had those kind of odds to happen by chance.
Any of those 122 things not happening we would not be here.
So If I was looking at that kind of information with no reference to God as an alternative I would know something was responsible for me being here other than chance.
So when I read what Andrei Linde the noted Russian Scientest known as the universal wizard said I would probably jump on his bandwagon.
In Discover magazine in 1992 Linde suggests, our own universe might have been created by beings in another universe.
But since we do have a book that tells us of a God and I see all these very improbable things. I have to think yes it had to be a super intellegence to overcome all those odds to bring about the universe.
So I will choose God over those odds of it happening by chance.
I read where some scientist said the odds of life starting on earth was 10^138 that equals: 1 in 1000...[135-more-zeros]
God Bless,
Edited by Admin, : Shorten long number.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Rahvin, posted 02-29-2008 2:05 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 135 by Blue Jay, posted 03-01-2008 10:13 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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