Too Many Flaws with Evolution

"Your wrong gene90. Evolution is a "religion". A religion is a set of beliefs, be that whatever principle you stand for."
--I certainly know of an extreamly wide diversity of religions then! On a more serious note, if this is your definition of religion, then what is the point of the argument, 'evolution is a religion!'. I think your definition renders this argument entirely futile.------------------

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[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 07-07-2002]

You have again rendered your argument useless. There is then no point to argue that Evolution is religious. Synonymously you could say that Bread is made from flour. In the definition you have selected:3. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.conscientious would of course be used in the context of assiduousity or, without just adding my own little suffixes, assiduousness.
--You've stated that your point is 'to make clear that whatever you believe in, is a "religion" '. This makes the ToE a perfectly reasonable 'belief'. [To a degree I would disagree with peter's rationalization that you do not 'believe' in Evolution if your an Evo]------------------

"I was expecting a somewhat educated message and was sorely disappointed."
--I wouldn't start criticizing others lack in effective posting rigour when your own appearance has directly followed with a horrible entry and first impression."Okay, creationism is just a belief that has no substantial proof outside the bible."
--The ToE haven't been 'proven' either, so there's no point there."No, creationism is not hard to understand as a beautiful story and a myth. Heck the bible is full of inconsistencies, how can we accept this as true?"
--While I highly doubt you in your confidence by this assertion, I'm not the one to ask questions in the realm of scriptural interpretation and such."Surely, you are not that ignorant to refute empirical evidence in place so some unproven "cherished belief". Or I could be wrong."
--If you were to refer to me, your wrong, if your talking to ringostore, you'd have to find his response.--Also, I am a YEC. I do, however, have no problem with the ToE. I simply disagree that it was the evolutionary process of evolutionary development which has taken place in Earth history.------------------

"Hmmm, how to adress this one. I am not the one with the "flaws and fabrications" of evolution."
--Neither am I."For the sake of this discussion, there has to be no scientific finesse because it is not needed."
--? I would be forced to think that such a discussion must require a large amount of 'scientific finesse' as it is a very delicate discussion. As well the question of inquiry of the theory and its constituent hypothesis should not be taken lightly."I am still waiting for those "flaws"."
--Can't think of any here, though I will point out flaws in a persons reasoning or conclusions drawn using the theory, misinterpretations, etc."Okay several things to say on this one. First off, there is much scientific evidence in supporting evolution, and everyday there is new evidence that is discovered that supports evolution all across the boards."
--This is why I made the assertion that the ToE has not been 'proven', its incorrect word usage and highly misleading if acknowledge as correct."I quote directly "in 1987 the United States Supreme Court ruled that creationism is RELIGION, not SCIENCE, and cannot be advocated in public school classrooms." taken from Not Found |The National Academies Press
All my life, I have looked at religion as a belief system. Creationism falls under this belief becuase you believed a "Higher Power" created all things either by creating them or creating them by evolution."
--Agreed."The Supreme Court which spends much more time than I do in research and listening to educated advice made the same decision that I have made. Creationism is a RELIGIOUS BELIEF, not a SCIENTIFIC THOERY."
--Agreed, though I don't think that the supreme court does the scientific research, but they do listen to the conclusions of various scientists."The theory of evolution was predicated by several theories some of which have been proven false."
--Not exactly, it was modified though."Yet, there were predictions made. This is significant in and of itself. To creationsim there weren no predictions made or problems set up."
--I don't know about other creationists, but my scientific inquiry revolves around predictions and working models based on data."It is all on the premise that you believe a Creator created the world, do not care how he did, just that he did."
--Actually, how he did it is one of my questions which I am interested in finding an answer to."This obviously has no scientific backup nor verification."
--For those who think along that line, your right."Evolution has substantial evidence backing it up. True some of the evidence may conflict with other evidence, but I believe in good time other discoveries shall be made to make sense of it."
--That last statement is interresting, I have similar faith in my expectations of latter studies in a YECists perspective."Well, I have been reserching the accuracy of the bible, and am very disturbed in what I have have discovered in my research. Based off that research and personal experience, I have stated the above comment."
--What sources of research have you inquired on?"Actually this was projected to no one in particular. It is simply a venting of frustration in the attitudes to most if not all creationists."
--The majority do have this major problem, though in my experience I evidently do not carry that 'junk gene'."I would have asked for personal beliefs before projecting that statment to anyone. Had, I addressed it to anyone, then I would have predicated it with a name."
--Well when you make your post responsive to a particular person (you are for instance responding directly to me for this post) this is what is automatically thought when you make comments, so be weary of your context with that in mind."You are a YEC. Any good sources out there to support this "belief". I am looking to see if there are any other thoeries are acceptable. Perhaps, we can talk about YEC. I am doing preliminary reserach into the creationist side[for once] in an attempt to understand what you believe in. If you know of any sources, they would be appreciated."
--This is difficult to answer personally. I read very very little creationist material. I usually only read them when my opponent in debate gives me a YECists reference which I may read. Which is rare. For me, I just read the mainstream science with an open mind and realization that the data has been interpreted and attempt to explain data and findings in various YEC scenarios. Speaking Generally for a good source of YEC perspective information, I know of no good source. ICR, AiG, CRS, etc all have their problems in logic and such. Though I enjoy reading particular works of YEC scientists that post their work at these organization's websites (The Institute for Creation Research | The Institute for Creation Research , http://www.answersingenesis.org , creationresearch.com | Venture , etc.). Especially the head of the organizations. Morris, Ken Ham, etc. irritate me. Vardiman, Baumgardner, Austin, snelling, Humphreys are some scientists whose work I enjoy reading. They all have great imput in a relatively recent book 'radioisotopes and the age of the earth', the only YECists book I have read completely and from the looks of many others this one is for the scientifically minded and is enjoyable to read. There is of course always Christian, Creationist, & YECist bias included in the text so I regularely just pay close attention to the data and contrast it with mine and the scientists conclusions and suggestions.--In the same way that I despise using the word 'credible' and a YECists organization as I have listed (including true.origins) in the same sentance, I do not find Talk.origins as a credible single source organization. While their included information is quite nice for Evolutionary information. They have a policy of automatic disclusion of Creationist thoughts from the archive. See the faq:
Frequently Asked Questions About Creationism and Evolution"And the welcome page:
Welcome to the Talk.Origins Archive------------------[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 08-10-2002]