Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   former speed of light
Sleeping Dragon
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 230 (119404)
06-28-2004 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by simple
06-28-2004 12:26 AM


To arkathon:
Thank you for your reply.
Reply to your post:
Hmm, thought so. So animals can't feel love I guess? Tell me, did you hate your father, and want to do your mother? Just lay down on the couch and tell me all about it. I'm listening, really. ha.
I am sorry, but not everybody shares your childhood tramua and fantasies. The fad of Freudian psychoanalysis has passed and your current views on Psychology is approximately 60 years out of date.
And in case you're interested, we have no idea if animals feel love in the human sense of love, but evidence suggests that many exist in beneficial symbiotic relationships similar to human communities.
Your response appears to be a mere waste of time and effort. Please put some meat (re: research) into your argument in subsequent posts please.
No I don't define them that way, really, but thanks for asking. At least you acknowledge some form of thoughts.
Thanks. So how do YOU define thoughts? Why do you define them thus? Do you have academic support for such a definition, or is it a dreamt up, unsupported whim like the one you are currently proposing?
And the 'physical evidence' of my thoughts, and everyone in the world's thoughts, does it all beep the same on your machine?
Evidence for their existence? Yes. Are you mysterized by modern technology yet?
There are degrees of good and evil. God defines evil pretty good, but most people on earth have an inner basic feeling of good and evil we are equipped with as well, in case we haven't read the bible. Cluster bombs, radiation weapons, nuclear weapons designed to mass murder man and the like are evil in themselves I'd say. The real evil was yeilding to the devil, and hellish inspiration that produced these things. Likewise, in yielding to dark forces to use them, same thing, you just have to know who the enemy of man and our soul is. But this we can't discuss, as we are not of the same belief, so I'll agree to disagee on this.
And should a nuclear warhead be used to pulverise an approaching asteroid, it would be evil science/knowledge used for good? Your defintion of good and evil is subjective at best (and completely pointless at worst).
Dark forces? Hellish inspiration? Did I just stumble into a Goth board by mistake?
Where DID all this wild speculations come from?
God is the center, and when man gets far away, I'd say, from Him, he becomes eccentric, or off center! This is why modern psychciatry is so off center. Is it any wonder so many from that proffesion are plain nuts?
Thanks. Not only is this a raving pointless non-sequitur, but you've insulted a medical/scientific profession through prejudice stereotyping. Oh arkathon, can't you stoop lower?
Patiently awaiting your reply.

"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by simple, posted 06-28-2004 12:26 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 1:55 AM Sleeping Dragon has not replied

  
Sleeping Dragon
Inactive Member


Message 122 of 230 (119415)
06-28-2004 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by simple
06-28-2004 12:26 AM


Con't.
And before you can wiggle away like a worm, please answer me:
How IS porn scientific?
and
How has the bible explained the process (that is, the "how") of creation via Genesis?
Indulge in idiosyncracy all you want, but when you make foolish, unsupported remarks, you stand to be challenged and corrected.
Patiently awaiting your reply.

"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by simple, posted 06-28-2004 12:26 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 2:02 AM Sleeping Dragon has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 123 of 230 (119539)
06-28-2004 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by simple
06-27-2004 11:52 PM


Re: Calculations
arkathon writes:
Star a billion light years away we'll call 'F'. Before seperation, it was -time from F to earth=0 After seperation it was time from F to earth=1 billion light years.
And that is where your suppositions fall apart.
You have finally proven them false.
You say
Before seperation, it was -time from F to earth=0
Okay. Then up to the very instant of the alleged seperation, all the light emmited by the star reaches the Earth the very moment it is first emitted. Time from F to Earth = 0.
After seperation it was time from F to earth=1 billion light years.
So unless the universe is greater than 1 billion years old, none of the light from that star will have reached the Earth yet.
If your theory were true we would have had a totally bright sky before seperation (light from all stars hitting us immediately) and a totally black sky immediately after seperation.
The only stars we would see in the sky today would be those within 6000 light years of the Earth. Every day, new stars would pop into the sky as the old slow light finally got to us.
However, looking at history, there have only been a few new stars show up and their appearance has been a big enough event, and so unusual, that they have been noted. Look up the origin of the word Nova.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by simple, posted 06-27-2004 11:52 PM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 2:14 AM jar has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 124 of 230 (119568)
06-28-2004 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by simple
06-25-2004 2:45 AM


Re: Just plain ugly
arkathon writes:
Biblically, there is good reasons for the possibility of what I think.
Umm. no there is not. You are making stuff up. Period.
arkathon writes:
And the spiritual and physical will come together in a new heaven and earth is pretty plain.
Umm no that is your opinion nothing more, and it is my opinion that there is no such thing. Unless you have something more than bullshit to support your assertions I do not think your dualist reality is any more believable than ...well the bible.
arkathon writes:
To say it is 'totally unfounded biblically' is a lie.
Really? show me the source evidence to support your claims (not your interpretations of what you think .
arkathon writes:
Young earthers don't make up UFOs! We all know that is a non religious worldwide thing.
Yes I agree and I give UFO stories as much creedence as your speed c rhetoric.
arkathon writes:
Spiritual light? Yes, a fact.(unless you don't believe in the spiritual at all)
Nope does not matter whether I believe it or not, If it was a fact I would believe it . How can you say the Spiritual is a fact? Are you prepared to show evidence other than heresay, mythology and dogmatic rhetoric to support your claims or are you going to continue to entreat us with more unfounded baloney?
arkathon writes:
So then. swearing, and lying is ok with the guidelines here? Your contempt is open, and a disgrace.
Well considering I was talking to WJ how does my swearing even have a bearing on you. If the shoe fits though... Also lying is what you have been doing. I merely pointed it out. And as far as saying I am a disgrace goes that is a personal attack and is against forum rules. But I will do the Christian thing and forgive you your trespasses. *edit typos.
This message has been edited by 1.61803, 06-28-2004 02:27 PM

"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by simple, posted 06-25-2004 2:45 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 2:31 AM 1.61803 has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 125 of 230 (120240)
06-30-2004 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Sleeping Dragon
06-28-2004 4:14 AM


chow time
quote:
The fad of Freudian psychoanalysis has passed and your current views on Psychology is approximately 60 years out of date.
An attempt at a little humor was lost on you there.
quote:
And in case you're interested, we have no idea if animals feel love
Who is "we".
quote:
Please put some meat (re: research) into your argument in subsequent posts please.
Wasn't Nietze a respected man by the shrink types? Maybe I should have taken some meat, put it on a stick, and feed it to the poor demented guy in the last part of his life, when, I read, he was crawling around on all fours, even barking like a dog!
quote:
So how do YOU define thoughts?
I wasn't actually trying to make a federal case out of that, I broght it up, like love, to try to find a few examples of things you can't really see, or touch, that you might believe in. All with the point of comparing it to spiritual things, you also can't really see most of the time.
quote:
Evidence for their existence? Yes
OK good enough, you say there is evidence, good enough for me. I actaully didn't need any, as I have lots of thoughts, as most people I ever met do!
quote:
And should a nuclear warhead be used to pulverise an approaching asteroid,
They were not thinking of asteroids when they were developed! They were designed to kill men en masse.
quote:
Dark forces? Hellish inspiration?
I vote yes!
quote:
Where DID all this wild speculations come from?
Gee doc, I used to hate my father about 60 years ago!
quote:
Not only is this a raving pointless non-sequitur, but you've insulted a medical/scientific profession
And I didn't know that? Those Mkultra lobotomy types give me the creeps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 06-28-2004 4:14 AM Sleeping Dragon has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 230 (120242)
06-30-2004 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Sleeping Dragon
06-28-2004 5:09 AM


quote:
How IS porn scientific?
Huh? Cut the dirty questions already! You must have been on a misunderstanding binge again!
quote:
How has the bible explained the process (that is, the "how") of creation via Genesis?
promise not to slink away, and I tell you.
It tells us how long exactly it took. It tells us what He did each day. He tells us why. He tells us where it ends. Now as far as every detail how He did it, we weren't, and maybe even aren't yet ready to understand, or He might tell us. Hey, maybe He is trying, but people don't listen?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 06-28-2004 5:09 AM Sleeping Dragon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Sleeping Dragon, posted 06-30-2004 8:29 AM simple has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 230 (120246)
06-30-2004 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by jar
06-28-2004 1:50 PM


covered
quote:
So unless the universe is greater than 1 billion years old, none of the light from that star will have reached the Earth yet.
Why would not the light keep reaching right from when our light became all there was coming?
quote:
If your theory were true we would have had a totally bright sky before seperation (light from all stars hitting us immediately) and a totally black sky immediately after seperation.
Assuming what? How do you know a spiritual and physical merged world would be "all light"? It just would not be slow like something physical. As far as this all dark thing, I thought I touched on that already?
quote:
The only stars we would see in the sky today would be those within 6000 light years of the Earth.
Sorry, you'll have to read what I answered on this already. Was it post 88? This isn't even warm.
quote:
Every day, new stars would pop into the sky as the old slow light finally got to us.
Stars are being 'born' aren't they? This old slow light thing, lets try to make it clear, was getting to us pretty weel from or near the getgo of the seperation. And it keeps getting to us, in a kind of slowed down time show of things cosmic. If you really can't get it, I'll go over it real slow, but I do think it was covered, these things you speak of.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 06-28-2004 1:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 06-30-2004 12:19 PM simple has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 230 (120253)
06-30-2004 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by 1.61803
06-28-2004 3:17 PM


Re: Just plain ugly
quote:
Umm. no there is not. You are making stuff up. Period.
You are presuming this. Period.
quote:
Umm no that is your opinion nothing more, and it is my opinion that there is no such thing.
Fair enough, you may be an unbeliever. But it is much more than my opinion. It is the finger of God that carved some of it in stone, spoke other parts, and made sure He got it all in a book. I simply chose to be on His side of the issue.
quote:
bullshit to support your assertions I do not think your dualist reality is any more believable than ...well the bible.
OK so now, you are saying the bible is like bs. fine.
quote:
To say it is 'totally unfounded biblically' is a lie.
" Really? show me the source evidence to support your claims "
Ha, now you want me to quote you chapter and verse of it!!! Yeah right, like that would be real worthwhile!
quote:
How can you say the Spiritual is a fact? Are you prepared to show evidence
What evidence do you want, you can't see smell, touch, or measure it with physical instruments or eyes. You say the bible is bs, so that won't count. Miracles? Fulfilled prophesy? Billions of witness who would say there is a spiritual all through history? No, you seem to have your mind made up, and who am I to confuse you with the facts?
quote:
But I will do the Christian thing and forgive you your trespasses.
Good. That is the Christian thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by 1.61803, posted 06-28-2004 3:17 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 230 (120254)
06-30-2004 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by wj
06-28-2004 2:57 AM


alas
So you sound like you have something, but just won't say. Fine. I guess since I didn't step into your loaded questions the right way, you ran out of steam for now? Almost had me nervous there with all the ballyho leading up to what I thought may be some real good point. Much ado about nothing, alas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by wj, posted 06-28-2004 2:57 AM wj has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by wj, posted 06-30-2004 3:02 AM simple has replied

  
wj
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 230 (120259)
06-30-2004 3:02 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by simple
06-30-2004 2:38 AM


Re: alas
Arky, you appear to be too silly or too ignorant to realise that jar has already identified the hole in your scenario in message #123. If you can't understand then I suppose we can continue to lead you towards the outcome step by step.
Try answering my question from message #110. Your supposed answers in message #118 did not address the issues.
quote:
So "physical" light was travelling faster than 300,000 km/s at that time? How fast roughly?
So, did the separation of "physical" and "spiritual" light occur instantaneously and simultaneously throughout the universe? Can we say that some thousands of years ago one photon was emitted by a star and it travelled to the earth many times faster than c and the next photon from the same star an instant later, after the separation, started on its journey to earth at the current rate of c?
Did all the P light travelling on the coattails of S light suddenly slow down to c when the separation occurred?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 2:38 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 3:47 AM wj has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 230 (120276)
06-30-2004 3:47 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by wj
06-30-2004 3:02 AM


dote on a photon
quote:
So "physical" light was travelling faster than 300,000 km/s at that time? How fast roughly?
No, Merged light, Spiritual lifgt was faster.
quote:
Can we say that some thousands of years ago one photon was emitted by a star and it travelled to the earth many times faster than c
No. no no.
quote:
and the next photon from the same star an instant later, after the separation,started on its journey to earth at the current rate of c?
No.
quote:
Did all the P light travelling on the coattails of S light suddenly slow down to c when the separation occurred?
I thought I already touched on how it was not really so much slowing down, as being left in it's place. Almost like a chemical change, where a reation happens, and we are left with a different thing than before.
If someone died, and was in heaven, and lying on the grass, say, having a lamb lick his face, then he suddenly was sent back to earth, would we expect him to have a wet face? If the spirit light was taken away, would we expect the P to be anything else but P? So the question, it seems to me, is how could S pssibly leave in it's path, or place, P? P can't speed up, or maybe even slow down (although they slowed it down in a lab)- so how could S have left it? How could P be all we have, when S is out of the picture? What process could do this? Perhaps if we understood S we may have a clue! As it is, it seems we are sort of dimension challenged, to where all we can see is our own.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by wj, posted 06-30-2004 3:02 AM wj has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by wj, posted 06-30-2004 3:56 AM simple has replied

  
wj
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 230 (120279)
06-30-2004 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by simple
06-30-2004 3:47 AM


Re: dote on a photon
So Arky, with all of this professed ignorance of the properties of "spiritual" light and "merged" light and ignorance of the effect of their supposed separation, how do you know that "merged" light and/or "spiritual" light travels faster than c? If so, how fast?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 3:47 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by simple, posted 07-01-2004 2:54 AM wj has replied

  
Sleeping Dragon
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 230 (120306)
06-30-2004 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by simple
06-30-2004 2:02 AM


To arkathon:
Thank you for your reply.
Reply to your post:
An attempt at a little humor was lost on you there.
Your pathetic attempt to pass off ignorance as humour was not lost on me.
Who is "we".
I use "we" to denote myself and the scientific community on the topic of "Display of love in animal behaviours". If you want to prove me wrong, all you have to do is find a respectable science paper that reveals "love" in animal behaviours. Note that the terms are specific - "love-like" is not acceptable.
Wasn't Nietze a respected man by the shrink types? Maybe I should have taken some meat, put it on a stick, and feed it to the poor demented guy in the last part of his life, when, I read, he was crawling around on all fours, even barking like a dog!
Your ignorance and naivety appear to know no bounds.
Mathematician John Nash suffered from Schizophrenia, yet he was respected and praised by the world for his achievements and contributions in Mathematics and Economics.
Abraham Lincoln suffered from severe depression (occasionally suicidal), yet he was respected and praised for the emancipation of slaves in USA.
Issac Newton and Ludwig von Beethoven suffered both from manic depression, yet they were respected and praised for their contributions to and genius in the field of Physics and Music respectively.
Winston Churchill, and Theodore Roosevelt were both manic depression sufferers also, yet they were respected and recognised for their charismatic leadership in World War II.
I can go on but I think the point is made. You have undermined the achievements of an individual due to his psychological disorder. You have insulted the profession of Psychology and Psychiatry through gross ignorance and prejudice. To top it off, you have ridiculed and satirized the misfortunes and sufferings of a fellow human being.
You call yourself a Christian? You, sir, disgust me.
I wasn't actually trying to make a federal case out of that, I broght it up, like love, to try to find a few examples of things you can't really see, or touch, that you might believe in. All with the point of comparing it to spiritual things, you also can't really see most of the time.
And as I have demonstrated, the fact that love and thoughts are intangible (possessing no physical form) does not rule out the evidence for their existence. You have demonstrated a very shallow knowledge of all aspects of science.
OK good enough, you say there is evidence, good enough for me. I actaully didn't need any, as I have lots of thoughts, as most people I ever met do!
So why were you arguing against the notion that ideas contrary to physical evidence constitute falsehood? It is foolish to argue against a notion you agree with.
They were not thinking of asteroids when they were developed! They were designed to kill men en masse.
So? The fact that evil items can be used for good, and items meant for good can be used for evil means that your definition of good/evil objects/knowledge/science is entirely useless. Please don't embarrass yourself any further.
I vote yes!
Gee doc, I used to hate my father about 60 years ago!
Your comments abide by the Rule of Ignorance fully: When challenged, make no sense.
And I didn't know that? Those Mkultra lobotomy types give me the creeps.
Are you going to push conspiracy theories around all day long? I am sorry but your paranoia is not the least bit amusing and your ignorance is apparent even without further evidence. If you insist on using arguments even toddlers would frown upon, I suggest you peddle your pathetic "theories" to an audience with a lower intellectual capacity. Try plants, I heard they're not renown for critical thinking.
*********************************************************************
Huh? Cut the dirty questions already! You must have been on a misunderstanding binge again!
Well! It's fairly difficult to misunderstand the implications when you answered...
See the cars on the road? See the tap on the sink? See the wealth of knowledge on the internet? These are the indirect consequences of scientific progress/discoveries, and they make our lives more convenient. This is how science "helps" us.
...with...
So what? You saying it's all good and helpful? Porn, air pollution, war? There is both good and evil.
I was discussing the consequences of scientific progress and discoveries, and you suggested "Porn, air pollution, war" as examples of "evil" consequences of science. I simply asked the most direct question that came to mind: How is porn a consequence of science? Please show how I have misunderstood. Or perhaps you're just being deceitful?
*********************************************************************
promise not to slink away, and I tell you.
It tells us how long exactly it took. It tells us what He did each day. He tells us why. He tells us where it ends. Now as far as every detail how He did it, we weren't, and maybe even aren't yet ready to understand, or He might tell us. Hey, maybe He is trying, but people don't listen?
That is a process? OK.
Recipe to bake a cake: It takes 45 minutes. I poured, then mixed, then baked. I baked because I love to. It's done when I come and eat it. Does that sound like "how" to you?
And anyway, my initial point was that science focuses on the "how" of things while religion focuses on the "why". If you agree that the Bible didn't tell us the "how":
Now as far as every detail how He did it, we weren't, and maybe even aren't yet ready to understand, or He might tell us.
then why did you argue against my point? Are you just bitter and twisted and needed to argue for the sake of arguing even though you agree with the point presented?
Patiently awaiting your reply.

"Respect is like money, it can only be earned. When it is given, it becomes pittance"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by simple, posted 06-30-2004 2:02 AM simple has not replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 134 of 230 (120307)
06-30-2004 8:36 AM


2 Peter 3:8 ?
If the speed of light travels at 182,000 miles per second. If one day to God is as a thousand years, then 182,000 * 60 seconds * 60 minutes * 24 hours * 7 days in a week * 52 weeks in a year * 1000 years = 1 of our DAY's TO GOD IN MILES = 5,723,827,200,000,000 MILES.
kjv 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
kjv 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This message has been edited by whatever, 06-30-2004 07:45 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by wj, posted 06-30-2004 9:31 AM johnfolton has not replied
 Message 143 by simple, posted 07-01-2004 2:47 AM johnfolton has not replied

  
wj
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 230 (120321)
06-30-2004 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by johnfolton
06-30-2004 8:36 AM


Re: 2 Peter 3:8 ?
whatever, we're working on arky's fantasy at this time, not your own. Perhaps you could work on the implications of yor "model" so that it can be tested against reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by johnfolton, posted 06-30-2004 8:36 AM johnfolton has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024