Evolution is NOT science: A challenge

I never said they were the same kind of faith. You assumed that though.
I completely understand the difference, thats why I clarified the point of people who put there life values around a theory, are not doing the right thing.Faith is finding God. Once you find him, it is no longer faith in believing he is there. You have faith that he will do the things he promises.

riVeRraT, So what's the point of saying science & religion have faith, then, if you are not conflating the two?Mark

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This is a ridiculous, illogical leap, (or perhaps a quote out of context) - that if genes are selfish, that the organism will be individually selfish.Quite the opposite is predicted by evolution - that in social animals, "selfish" genes will survive by producing "socially responsible" characteristics. (Though one could argue these "unselfish" characteristics have arisen for "selfish" reasons.)

Pink Sasquatch,Don't even go there. You can tell Syamsu that Dawkins Selfish Gene theory goes to enormous lengths to explain altruism, but you'd be wasting your time. He refuses to read either The Selfish Gene, ot The Extended Phenotype, & every out of context quote he makes goes against the general message of both books.Learn from my mistakes. Don't bother.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

"However, as we shall see, there are special circumstances in which a gene can achieve its own selfish goals best by fostering a limited form of altruism at the level of individual animals. 'Special' and 'limited' are important words in the last sentence. Much as we might wish to believe otherwise, universal love and the welfare of the species as a whole are concepts that simply do not make evolutionary sense."Important words... which are blissfully ignored whenever it suits the politics of the evolution vs creation controversy.regards,
Mohammad Nor Syamsu

Dawkins' The Selfish Gene is NOT the topic of discussion here. Take it elsewhere.

---

AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

quote:

---

Yes, it is not proven, so it is faith.

---

So, do you believe that your faith in God is the same as my faith that germs cause disease?If you say yes, you are just being belligerant and willfully obtuse.

quote:

---

2+2=4, that is proven, and it is not faith anymore.

---

Math is an abstraction, and as such is not relevant to natural phenomena, nor to religious faith.

quote:

---

The Sun is indeed yellow in color, so it is proven, not faith.

---

Do you belive that electrons exist?Yes or no.

quote:

---

The sun does not exactly sit in the exact center of our solar system, yet for years they believed it did, so they had faith in it.

---

No, they trusted that it did, but when contrary evidece come up that showed that the old idea wasn't quite rightm they abandoned it in favor of the more correct iea.Is this what your faith in God is like?Do you constantly test God, trying to figure out all the ways you might be wrong about God? Do you conduct carefully designed experiments to test if your prayers really are coming true or if you are just engaging in confirmation bias? If the resuts from these tests were to come back against the notion that your prayers were being ansered at a rate greater than chance would predict, would you abandon the idea that God was answering your prayers?No?Then your faith in God is NOTHING AT ALL LIKE the trust we have that germs cause disease, that matter is made up of atoms, etc.

quote:

---

I don't care how much evidence there is, the words theory and faith go hand in hand.

---

There is MORE THAN ONE DEFINITION OF FAITH, RRat.IF you refuse to acknowledge this, you are being belligerant and willfully obtuse.

quote:

---

If you belive in it, you are putting your faith in it.

---

It is not a faith in things unseen and for which there is no evidence for.

quote:

---

If you believe it is an unproven theory, then you are not putting your faith in it.

---

ALL THEORIES IN SCIENCE ARE UNPROVEN.All of them.Every single one.Without exception.However, we TRUST that the theories are correct because they explain the evidence that we find in nature the best so far.

quote:

---

Well, sure it's wrong. Good thing that's not what scientists do, nor what the theory claims.

---

quote:

---

If that were only true.

---

It is true.I have explained why it is true above.Perhaps you would like to explain the "faith in things unseen" that any scientific work requires?Please provide examples.Please be specific.

Thats what I originally said. It is evolutionists like you that take it all out of proportion.
Whats so hard to to understnad about what I said.Some people belive in evolution and God.
Some people belive in evolution and evolution.
Some people believe in God, and understnad that evolution ispossible, but its just a theory.
Some people belive in God and thats it.If you believe in evolution and evolution, then you need no proof, to answer the original question that started this thread.

Does your faith run your life. Are your life beliefs center around this faith? I believe it is possible. I have never seen one, so I should not say if they actually exist or not. In the begining yes, not anymore. Now its up to me. God already showed me that he is there. He keeps showing me he is there, but I no longer need this proof to believe in him.So in a sense it is just like the faith you have. Except mine doesn't change with every new theory. Yes and no. Who says there is no evidence for God.
Anyone who thinks this is sadly mistaken.
I will not get into that, its been gone through alread, but basically Jesus made us a promise, and he kept it.
Read about it in Acts.
There are many mor day to day proofs for me. This we agree on. It is not rue because you say so.
I have seen it already. I worked in a building full of people like this.

And that is why Evolution is not a religious belief, and why Creationism is not science.You see, we support the TOE because it is the best theory to explain the evidence so far. As soon as something is discovered that cannot be explained by the TOE, it will be time to modify, expand or abandon the TOE. That is the big difference. That is why the TOE is not a matter of faith.That is why the TOE succeeded while Creationism has been a total failure.That is why almost every Christian and Jewish Church has come out in support of teaching Evolution and in opposition to teaching Creationism.

---

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

quote:

---

I never said they were the same kind of faith. You assumed that though.

---

I assumed that because you are claiming that a faith in science is the same as faith in God. Are you now claiming that these two kinds of faith are different? If so, wouldn't it be fair to say that science accepts theories differently than people accepting God?

quote:

---

Faith is finding God.

---

No, faith is believing that you have found God.

quote:

---

Once you find him, it is no longer faith in believing he is there. You have faith that he will do the things he promises.

---

Can you show me the experiments I can run that produce objective data that supports the existence of God? If not, then why are you comparing scientific theories and religion?

riVeRraT, I simply don't understand why someone would start a line of reasoning where they are knowingly comparing apples with oranges.Mark

Because you believe in evolution by faith does not mean its your religion.If you base all your beliefs in life on evolution, then it is your religious faith, no need for proof. To answer the original question.Its funny how evolutionists always get so defensive when the posssiblity of this being true is mentioned.

Bacterial flagellum.I still would base my entire belief system on evolution.
Nor would I believe the Jews or the Catholic church. Both religions run by men, not God.Creationism is a science, not a very good one, but it is a science.
WE have a lot to learn still. 150 years of evolution is nothing.

No. Not if you use science to not believe in God. Have you found God? If not how could you possibly say that? Yes I can.
God will light you up like a light bulb lol.
This is said in a good way.