What are the odds of God existing?

cavediver As to the first propsition I would like you to clarify how you can have a creator in a temporally infinite universe since ,to me, it seems that a problem occurs here. I assume,perhaps incorrectly , that a creator would need be more complex than that which he creates.Thatsaid, the issue resolves around the need for the complexity of a creator to arise before having the ability to create the temporal aspect of a universe. This assumes that the temporal aspect is part of the creation.As to the second and as a third possibilty could we dicuss whether there is a problem with a temporally infinite universe that is not created.I would like to anticipate some of your response {perhaps I am being far too cocky here} so I wonder if you could resolve for me a long standing issue I am personally unable to resolve.If we take the position that the universe always existed I assume this is the same as saying that time never had a beginning which seems to me to be impossible for the reason that without a beginning how can any point in time ever be arrived at?I know this is topic drift and I will open a new topic if need be but this has been a long standing paradox with me.This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-04-28 08:01 AM

cavediverThanks for the help it is much appreciated

cavediverI am glad that you would take the time to reply and I will eagerly await your reaponse. I will hopefully have time to discuss here and there over the course of the weekend so fire away.

cavediver It seems to me that the uncertainty principle makes a great case for such a state of the universe pre BB since it would allow for the existence of the UP in the first palce.Time and energy could follow an exchange of values to avoid a construction of the universe{and hence all our existential assumptions of it} while not having value of zero.If we allow the existence of absolute nothingness {sans zero point energy} then one need ask how the conditions came about that would allow for an UP.Now that seems the greater unlikelihood IMHO.A thought just came to me {scared the bejeesus out me it did} concerning the discussion we were having the other day. Pre BB, while the time energy field was fluctuating and the statistics of it are shifting what would be the result if the value of time did go to zero{or rather a limiting value of some extremley tiny fraction of the Planck time} and the resulting energy went to maximum { I say maximum to avoid any quandry imposed by an infinite energy component} does this come close to being a condition that would result in our universe having a time component that is illusory in the sense that in four dimensions light does not actually experience time?I am sure I have messed it up and the answer is not so simple but,hey, what do you expect for a grade 11 education.

{Dan's Clever
Alias}I think #216 pretty much did it.