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Author | Topic: Exodus, Merneptah stela and israelites | |||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Answering posts is not cluttering up. You asked a question before and then followed it next post with a restriction for off topic: I posted the details elsewhere. All such questions have been responded to.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: 'Enemies' signifies a battle to be free, and marks the only time an enslaved peoples escaped what was then the world's super-power, and followed by a period of a nation, a scientific cencus, the completion of the Mosaic books, the establishment of Israel in Canaan and its capital Jerusalem, and the temple destroyed by Babylon. The right to freedom (Liberty) and Inalienable Human Rights were born here. There is no question here of fakery as flaunted in this thread: the descriptions of Israel's failures in wars with Babylon and Rome are recorded very plainly, as is the subjugation under Egypt. IOW, self-criticism is not lacking here.
quote: This inconsistancy is highlighted by Israel going on to be a nation in Canaan, unlike the Hyksos expulsion. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I did supply claims. Your 'these' is not clear.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Linked addresses (URLs)were included and can be further read; they show that Egypt did in fact inflate, and scholars are saying this. Its not about no scroll of self-admission, but no disputation evidence from any source against a documented description prevailing. A jury won't have problems with my posts: a diary is admissable evidence in a court, even in a murder trial.
quote: Lets first establish the point debated. But yes, ancient humans in ancient egypt were the same as us today - we would act the same under their conditions. And just as galileo did, one came up with a manifesto of human rights, which was the fulcrum factor at that time. The Exodus is about Inalienable Human Rights in the big picture - unless you want to disregard the resultant laws enshrined in that document - even as it changed the world? It is mirrowed with the right of freedom of belief and Rome's greatest war, represented single-handedly by Israel 2000 years ago: no myth here either.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: The year is not left out. Scolars date their findings in this region against dates in the OT, and these have been disputed and verified. An example relates to the dates given for King David - verified in the tel Dan discovery; there are numerous such examples. One cannot observe a month and week, annually, without a year; the Hebrew calendar is active today. The gregorian calendar is a contrived continuation of it. The 'year' datings of the establishment of Jerusalem as a Capital, for example, is determinable by calculating the thread of dates in the OT - this is performed, and this anniversary is not only celebrated annually, but is used and verified by archeologists today. The terms 'traditions' and 'full moons' is not applicable here: the OT calendar is regarded the most accurate and oldest in existence, and URL addressed links were supplied.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Amnosey.
The 'day' the ten commandments were given is recorded as a saturday in the book of Exodus ('REMEMBER *THIS* DAY AS THE SABBATH'/EX). Care to explain how this is determinable - without a year, as you put it? Its a question of math!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Because freedom was the requirement with egypt, and this is also in the narratives.
quote: No need to read about it, this is known history. There were two states in the nation of israel; the southern state, Judea, contained Jerusalem.
quote: No, cannan was at some points under egypt's control, but not part of egypt. The Israelite rights transcend Egypt, being born and incepted in canaan.
quote: It does not see to work for me too.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: True, I got this info by reading the texts, and the commentary which backs up the relevent maths. It is not doubtable, being a celebrated festival for 1000s of years. The christians call this the last supper, but unlike the OT calendar accuracy, its observence date is a free floating one. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Nope - your understanding is incorrect. The year is not a problem; the first year begins with Adam, today 5766 years ago. This 5766 year calendar is fully aligned with today's years, with some glitches needing adjustments, owing to Pope Gregory's refusal to adopt the lunar and solar hebrew calendar, discarding the lunar section, which does not give accurate days. When advised so by his bishops, that the new gergorian calendar, which begins 2000 years ago and operating only by the solar impacts, would cause 11 days extra, he responded: 'better to be wrong with he moon than be right with the jews - we will just omit 11 days!'. But there was never any confusion of the year in the hebrew calendar. So if we know a day falls on saturday, it can be confirmed by a calculus of the calendar.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
I did answer brenekin.
Which part?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Here, democrasy must bow to the right of a nation to have a homeland. Democracy was introduced in the OT (mytical tales), and has conditions and limitations, while the concept of land is precedent, and prevades all species and life forms. Democracy is a component of 'laws', and 'YOU SHALL LIVE BY THIS LAW', not be destroyed by it. The minority is best protected by the law, which includes the rights of strangers and smaller groups ("Equal justice for the inhabitant as the stranger'). By itself, democracy negates the rights of a minority.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: As opposed to what - we know of canaan via OT narratives? The other writings, very meagre bits of letters and relics, and without dates and specific historical data, serve as reflections of the OT narratives.
quote: Yes, egypt had a history with canaan, which peoples travelled to and fro: this is recorded in the OT, whereby Abraham and his wife visited Egypt well before Joseph was born. Egypt did not speak hebrew, which indicates this was a new/different language in this region; it was also not spoken in Mesopotamia. The hebrew language and monotheism was a suspicious thing in this spacetime, which conflicted with divine kings and the absence of laws. The latter can be a valid reason why the eight kingdoms of Canaan rejected Israel and barred her entry; it is akin to promoting democracy in a lawless area of dictators.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Yes, a minority is subject to being sidelined via democratic voting. Other laws must be accompanied to result in the minority's protection.
quote: Nothing is correct here. Jews did not come from Iraq. Judaism was born and incepted in canaan. The egyptians were not ransacked - they used slaves without pay and without any rights. Liberty was borne when Israel prevailed. Egypt instigated the canaanites wrongly, and genocide was declared against the Israelites when they fleed Egypt. Your appraisal is not just wrong, but the reverse of the facts, thus you bypassed all the wrongs comitted by Egypt and Canaan. Jews have never stolen anyone's lands in all their 4000 year history, despite being the world's most dispersed: did Jews rob Tasmania, Pakistan or Poland?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Egypt was not one of, but THE superpower, equivalent with Rome.
quote: Pharoah was not killed, his army was; the OT says he lived after the battle with Moses. The oral law says Pharoah lived to a ripe age, but not as a Pharoah - he became a believer and went on to promote Judaism; so did his preist, who became Moses' father in law. The other nations did notice what occured, and Egypt was weakened greatly. The israelites had battles with many other nations before entering canaan. Babylon, then Persia emerged as the next superpower, and egypt never recovered her superpower status again.
quote: This did occur. Nor is there any doubt that Egypt was steeped in enslaving peoples from other nations, which system broke down, and an Israelite sovereign nation resulted in Canaan. Generally, aside from a few items not yet proven, the OT narratives are vindicated as a whole, with no blatant inconsistancies.
quote: EG?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3699 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Brilliant observation, but my statement did not refer to time, but equivalence, both being the only superpower in their periods.
quote: Read Exodus again: pharoah was not killed.
quote: Yes. But don't you?
quote: Inconsistancies negate a myth factor, and indicates a veracity amidst some factors being not bearing an alignment with other percieved factors. It is not a classic example of myth at all, and represents actual history. Myth is Zeus and Hercules. You did not evidence any inconsistancies: small variances of datings and minor contradictions do not indicate a myth factor, but in fact affirm its antithesis. Lets not forget that king david was equally classified a myth by the greatest scholars for over a century, and many extensions were drawn from that premise; this was totally overturned with the Tel Dan find. David was a mere 250 years after the Exodus. I suspect your views are based on obsolete data.
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