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Author
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Topic: The God of the Bible is Evil
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 60 of 190 (402696)
05-29-2007 1:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 56 by Taz
05-29-2007 12:51 PM
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Re: Back to the Beginning
Tazmanian Devil writes: By our standard in this time and place, is god of the bible evil? But that's the wrong standard to use. The OP refers to God as portrayed in the Bible. We need to look at that portrayal in the context of those who were portraying Him. In fairy tales, the Big Bad Wolf is portrayed as "bad". By our standards, wolves aren't "bad", they're just trying to survive. But we read Little Red Riding Hood in the context in which it was written, not in our own context. Why do differently with the Bible? Edited by Ringo, : Adverbificated "differently.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 12:51 PM | | Taz has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 63 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 1:50 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 61 of 190 (402697)
05-29-2007 1:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 57 by Taz
05-29-2007 1:04 PM
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Re: Human sacrifice even by God is Evil
...show what in the OT leads you to believe that God is all knowing. Proverbs 5:21 This is why I ask people to quote the verse instead of just the reference.
quote:
Pro 5:21 For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings.
Pro 5:22 His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.
Pro 5:23 He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray.
"He" seems to refer to man, not God - i.e. man pondereth all his goings. Nothing to do with God being "all-knowing".
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 1:04 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 2:08 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 67 of 190 (402704)
05-29-2007 2:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by berberry
05-29-2007 1:50 PM
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Re: Back to the Beginning
berberry writes: Why do differently with the Bible? I dunno, maybe because no one worships Little Red Riding Hood? What has worship got to do with it? If we approach one piece of literature in the way it was intended, why not do the same with all literature?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 1:50 PM | | berberry has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 68 of 190 (402705)
05-29-2007 2:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Taz
05-29-2007 2:08 PM
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Tazmanian Devil writes: According to the new international version.... We are looking at how God is portrayed in the Bible. The whole God-is-all-knowing sideshow is off-topic unless you can show that that is how God is portrayed. Your one reference ain't doin' it. Examining man's paths (whether done by God or man himself) doe not imply "all-knowing". Edited by Ringo, : Capitalization.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 2:08 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 69 by jar, posted 05-29-2007 2:32 PM | | ringo has not replied | | | Message 70 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 2:35 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 71 of 190 (402708)
05-29-2007 2:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 70 by Taz
05-29-2007 2:35 PM
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Tazmanian Devil writes: The only way for him not to be evil is if he is so ignorant that he wasn't capable of conjuring up other, less evil ways to free his people. You're ignoring the context in which Exodus was written. The people who wrote the book didn't consider it evil to kill their enemies - men, women or children. God chose a method that was morally acceptable to the people portraying Him. Your concept of "evil" is irrelevant.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 2:35 PM | | Taz has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 72 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 2:55 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 77 of 190 (402714)
05-29-2007 3:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 72 by Taz
05-29-2007 2:55 PM
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Tazmanian Devil writes: ... if you want to take this route, we'd have to admit that Hitler wasn't evil.... In the context of Allied propaganda, Hitler was evil. In the context of the history written by his enemies, he was evil. In the context of Nazi propaganda, he wasn't.
Do you think slavery was evil or not? My opinion, like yours, is irrelevant. We are talking about how God was portrayed in the Bible, not how He "is". The portrayal is not evil because the people doing the portraying didn't intend it to be evil. Any "evil" in it is painted on by your preconceived notions. (If a hobbit is described as "tall" by other hobbits, does our own concept of "tall" have any relevance?)
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by Taz, posted 05-29-2007 2:55 PM | | Taz has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 79 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 3:40 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 80 of 190 (402719)
05-29-2007 3:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 79 by berberry
05-29-2007 3:40 PM
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berberry writes: If I go and read that Nazi propaganda you were talking about, I'd be wrong to consider Hitler evil because the people doing the portraying don't intend him to be portrayed as evil? You'd be wrong to claim that he was portrayed as evil.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 3:40 PM | | berberry has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 82 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 4:15 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 83 of 190 (402731)
05-29-2007 4:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 82 by berberry
05-29-2007 4:15 PM
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berberry writes: You'd be wrong to claim that he was portrayed as evil. Perhaps. But not to claim that he is evil, as portrayed. So it's clear then that the "evil" is in your perception and not in the portrayal itself? (Did Rubens portray women as "fat"? No. He portrayed them as "beautiful".)
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 4:15 PM | | berberry has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 86 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 4:42 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 88 of 190 (402736)
05-29-2007 4:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 86 by berberry
05-29-2007 4:42 PM
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berberry writes: Silly me. What strikes me as silly about this thread is that we see atheists arguing for an absolute morality. 
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 86 by berberry, posted 05-29-2007 4:42 PM | | berberry has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 92 of 190 (402742)
05-29-2007 6:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 91 by iceage
05-29-2007 6:30 PM
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Re: Absolutes.
iceage writes: Do you believe atheist are necessarily required to be moral relativist? No. It's just that they don't have an arbitrary absolute foundation to build absolutism on.
Atheist and agnostics can and do believe in absolute morality and purpose in life.... Where did I say anything about "purpose in life"? (And why are atheists so defensive?  ) Edited by Ringo, : Capitalization.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by iceage, posted 05-29-2007 6:30 PM | | iceage has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 93 by iceage, posted 05-29-2007 7:31 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 104 of 190 (402772)
05-29-2007 10:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 102 by iceage
05-29-2007 10:32 PM
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Re: reciprocity?
iceage writes: This ethic of reciprocity, aka the golden rule, is one of those working principles that transcends culture and ages, and can be used to determine good/evil. If that's true, why did Jesus have to underline/redefine the meaning of "neighbour" in the Good Samaritan parable? Clearly the average Jew (Old Testament believer) had a different view of who was worthy of "reciprocity" than you do. Edited by Ringo, : Capitalization.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by iceage, posted 05-29-2007 10:32 PM | | iceage has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 107 by iceage, posted 05-29-2007 11:34 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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