Yep, confusing indeed. It gets just as confusing when one reads non-EVC literature too. Ya know, I found this particularly frustrating but after I found out what people in New Zealand were writing about biology, and it was all in English, I just dismissed most of these confusion comaparisons as academic. Maybe that is why I never got on at Cornell not that I was psychologically disposed to do so. Anyway..
This difference you were able to get a good sequence of discussion on, shows how important it is to think about a single "generation" when discussing the relation of form-making and translation in space to "mutations" of any polyvocal crack er,, at it...
Before the force of Crick's DNA was around, Weismann, thinking through selection selectively on more than one level had thought that any form changes had to come "molecularly" from without, outside the organism. It has always been an academic point with me why molecular biologists (not organacists) have not since WWII tried to group mutations acros one or a determinate number of generations into physically caused classes that in effect might be statistically tested for seperability in... Maybe a particular lineage or monophyla has a group of mutations caused by photons in divided phases, another a group by subatomic particles, another by human electricity, another by a comination of macro-physical troque combined with circular chemcial rxn networks, another by a quantum mechanical difference in the energy levels of the ad hoc chemicals in the larger clade the monophyla is in. These particulars are not mutually exclusive.
Instead because of the differnt affects on thoughts about levels of selection and levels of organization one can find (in Science vol 312 May 5, 2006 on sexual selection) an example which makes your point.
J Stewart responding to Roughgarden
et. al said,
quote:
"Choices could also be made by females in this manner: for example, a chemical push evolved in female lions that causes them to prefer male lions with darker manes. Whether this push results in better genetics for lions is irrelevant. Once females mate and have a litter, another set of chemical signals takes over that pushes her to take care of her offspring rather than abandon them. In other species, there is no chemcial push, so femalses abandon their offspring and survive on their own."
Here Stewart DID seperate mutations in prior generations ("whether this push results in better genetics for lions is irrelevant") from the divided push chemcial system that manifests itself AFTER some mutation (push better manes, push parental care) but Stewart and no one I know of then tries to say if this chemical push category itself cannot itself have a biophysical reduction of a group of physical "agents" that cause just this push not the "pull" in any other spieces with a better genetics or not!! Roughgarden et. al. point out the problem in general with Stewart was that Stewart thought that Roughgarden et al were talking about SPECIES not individuals but then if we raise the discussion to a "third" level of species selection and individuality the whole discussion gets so very complicated.
That is why I find it incumbent on biologists to be as redutionist as possible but this is in material reality not theoretical biology only.