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Author Topic:   Why does evolutionary science seem to be
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 45 of 107 (83830)
02-06-2004 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by q3psycho
02-06-2004 6:37 AM


My goodness, there are many who have used evolution to disprove the Bible. The creation account in Genesis. Noah. The age of the earth. Are you saying I'm making this up? That evolution supports these things in the Bible?
Disproving the bible is a very different thing from disproving Christianity. The bible does not need to be literal and inerrant for Christianity to be true. Which is just as well as anyone supporting biblical inerrancy is fighting a losing battle.
No, evolution goes against the Bible in certain places and that's just a fact. I think the most important thing is Adam and Eve and original sin. If that is wrong then there's no point to Jesus and I might just as well then quit going to church and get drunk every saturday night. I'd rather sleep in anyway.
The story of Jesus does not require orginal sin. Only that humans are incapable of living sin-free lives. Jesus dies then for our sins, not for the sins of some couple who commited a minor transgression six thousand years ago. What kind of justice is it that means we are to punished for their sins anyway? That would be like jailing the children (and grand-children) of convicted thieves for their fathers (or grandfathers) crimes.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 71 of 107 (85702)
02-12-2004 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Jagz Beach
02-11-2004 7:33 PM


Do we not know and understand that all men and women evolved from one woman and woman? And that we are not kin to the Neanderthal?
No. And No.
For the first I imagine you are misinterpreting the mitochondrial eve research. This shows we all have one common female ancestor, not that she was the only woman alive at that time.
We are 'kin' to the Neanderthal, although we do not seem to be directly descended from them.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 82 of 107 (85996)
02-13-2004 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Jagz Beach
02-12-2004 5:26 PM


Re: Are you people kidding me?
Stop Jacking me around with your smoke and mirror act.I don't know what your definition of 'Kin' is but mine is 'of the same nature, or of the same kind'.
Dude, leave out the unfounded accusations.
I would have said, for example, that scottish wild cats and domestic cats were 'kin'. Using kin in the same sort of way it is used to describe related family member in human geneaolgy. You are correct with your definition of 'kin', I am correct with mine - no smoke and mirrors, just a difference of terminology.
And your also wrong about saying no redarding one woman when by your own admission you practivcally said the same exact thing but used the term female rather than woman. Why you had to throw that she wasn't the only woman is beyond me as if it even had any baering on the argument.
No, I didn't. Your statement implied there was only one couple that all humans descended from (I assume where you said 'woman and woman' you meant 'woman an man'?). This is false. All humans do indeed share one (most recent) common female ancestor and one (most recent) common male ancestor. But these two were not a couple; indeed they were seperated by some (IIRC) 70,000 years! There was not one female ancestor at the time of the common ancestor, although those other ancestors' mitochondrial DNA was not passed on this is absolutely not to say that all their DNA was lost (only that it passed through all male lines on the way).
I'm concentrating, incidently, on the female side because I'm not sure how the common male ancestor is determined.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Jagz Beach, posted 02-12-2004 5:26 PM Jagz Beach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by PaulK, posted 02-13-2004 5:46 AM Dr Jack has replied
 Message 86 by Jagz Beach, posted 02-13-2004 8:47 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 84 of 107 (86002)
02-13-2004 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by PaulK
02-13-2004 5:46 AM


Re: Are you people kidding me?
The male equivalent is based on the Y-chromosome which is inherited exclusively through the male line.
Of course! I feel rather silly now...
[This message has been edited by Mr Jack, 02-13-2004]

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 89 of 107 (86032)
02-13-2004 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Jagz Beach
02-13-2004 8:47 AM


Re: Assumptions assumptions assumptions
Dude,
You quoted Paul and attributed it to me, I'll not expand on his answer above.
Call them kin all you want, but wild cats and domestic cats are a far cry from humans that where clothes and build fires, opposed to comparing them to extinct apes. Your comparing apples to oranges. Look at the biological difference between us and an orangutan, or gold and led.
I said Neanderthals were kin to us, not orang-utans. They made tools and buried their dead, apparently with some ritual - that seems pretty 'kin' to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Jagz Beach, posted 02-13-2004 8:47 AM Jagz Beach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Jagz Beach, posted 02-13-2004 9:42 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 92 of 107 (86048)
02-13-2004 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Jagz Beach
02-13-2004 9:42 AM


Re: Assumptions assumptions assumptions
Well let's forget about extinct apes how about what our history books say...
I do not consider the Bible to be a history book of any sort.
Could this indeed be the Neanderthal?
The bible was written many thousands of years after the Neanderthals became extinct, and there is no real evidence for Neanderthals having interbred with Cro Magnon man, so no, I don't think so.

"You're Green, You're Ugly and the Gods Hate You."

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 95 of 107 (86060)
02-13-2004 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Jagz Beach
02-13-2004 10:29 AM


How do we know for sure they were not giants?
Because we know them from skeletons? It's not exactly hard to work out all tall someone, or something, was from its skeleton.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 97 of 107 (86064)
02-13-2004 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Jagz Beach
02-13-2004 10:43 AM


There's a Chinese saying which is something like:
"The mark of true knowledge is to understand how little you know."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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