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Author Topic:   Impossible evolution of new beneficial proteins
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 9 of 75 (85132)
02-10-2004 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by CreationMan
02-10-2004 4:59 PM


Re: Ya'll missin' the point
CreationMan writes:
And new information cannot arise out of nowhere, (that's a scientific law)
You are talking through your hat - there is no such law. Here is a link to Shannon's original paper on information. Notice that the law you describe is not mentioned therein.
What *is* mentioned is that the greatest source of new information is a random number generator. Which is pretty much the source of mutation.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 4:59 PM CreationMan has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 11 of 75 (85137)
02-10-2004 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by CreationMan
02-10-2004 5:31 PM


Re: Info
CreationMan writes:
If you disagree provide me with a scientific example of the opposite happening. You can't, and you won't find one either. So happy hunting.
Any event. If the event is illuminated, information about that event will be transmitted to your eyes.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 5:31 PM CreationMan has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 14 of 75 (85143)
02-10-2004 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Loudmouth
02-10-2004 5:40 PM


Re: Info
Looks like we have a Dembski or Gitt disciple. Dillan used to say the same thing.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Loudmouth, posted 02-10-2004 5:40 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 15 of 75 (85145)
02-10-2004 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by CreationMan
02-10-2004 5:46 PM


Re: Mutation
CreationMan writes:
And BTW MUTATIONS HAVE NEVER BEEN OBSERVED YEILDING NEW INFORMATION.
Spetner is wrong. You can understand why by following this scenario.
Imagine a population of organisms, and one of the genes in this population has 8 different alleles (varieties), so the total information for this gene within the population is log28=3.
Now imagine that one of the newly born organisms possesses a mutation at this gene location that is different from the other 8 alleles, yielding a total of 9 alleles within the population, so the total information is now log29=3.12. Since 3.12>3, information in the population has increased.
--Percy

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 Message 13 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 5:46 PM CreationMan has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22505
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 24 of 75 (85162)
02-10-2004 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by CreationMan
02-10-2004 6:06 PM


From an earlier message:
CreationMan writes:
Have there ever been mutations shown to INCREASE NEW information in the genes. I.E., Information causing a reptile arm to turn into a bird wing.
If you're talking about turning a reptile arm into a bird wing within a single generation, then this is not the theory of evolution. Change is gradual within evolution.
From your last message:
CreationMan writes:
In order for evolution to work (reptile arm to bird wing) you need the info from the bird wing to be introduced to the reptile arm.
Again, I'm not sure if you're referring to sudden jumps of evolution, which evolution can't speak to since it isn't part of the theory, but if we can talk about gradual change then let's return to the example of the population of organisms, and the offspring that experienced a new mutation. The population might have been one of ancient reptiles that were forerunners to birds, and the offspring might have experienced the mutation in the gene of an arm (foreleg, I assume you mean).
But applying the example to a specific situation is unnecessary to showing that mutation increases information. The math is self-evident.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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