Psychology looks at atheism and theism. Also, atheism is tenuous/non-existent/rare ..

Hello, kendemyer. Welcome back to EvC.Are you posting this here because your debate at TheologyWeb didn't go very well?At any rate, there seems to be a couple of topics mixed into this. One, you seem to be saying that atheism does not really exist. A second assertian seems to be that atheists are mentally unstable.

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Now I believe I have offered evidence that atheism very well may not really exist. At the very least, I would say that professed atheists certainly have not demonstrated that atheism exist.

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To quote Samual Johnson: "I refute it thus." I am an atheist. I exist. Therefore I am empirical evidence that atheism exists.

I can't speak for Darwin Storm, but I assume that your reply to him applies equally to me, since we make the same claims.Now I am an atheist. I know what I believe and what I don't believe, and where I have no definite beliefs. Now, you are claiming that I am not really an atheist, since you seem to claim that atheists exist. Why should I believe you? I have real, indisputable evidence that atheism exists, namely my own beliefs. What evidence do you have that would compel me to think otherwise?Edited to add:
I will leave it to you to figure out whether or not I am a member of TWeb, and if so, who I am. This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 09-01-2004 08:36 PM

It really doesn't matter whether you believe or not that I am an atheist. I thought that you might like to convince me that I'm not really an atheist, but if you try you would be at a great disadvantage since I know what I believe.But I can see why you conservative Christians need to believe that atheism doesn't really exist, or that we unbelievers are willful in our unbelief.(1) There is no clear, unambiguous evidence that God exists at all.(2) Therefore, not believing in God is a rational, reasonable, logical belief.(3) A person's belief is not entirely under their control.(3) According to some Christian beliefs, God will punish unbelievers with eternal damnation.By any standard of justice, this makes God out to be unjust, cruel, arbitrary, and evil.So the way out of the dilemma is to believe that unbelievers must willfull in their unbelief. The evidence is clear, but unbelievers just won't look at it. Or God implanted into everyone an instinctive belief in him, but unbelievers work hard to deny it. Somehow, unbelievers really do believe in God, they just don't want to admit it because of...pride, or lust, or whatever.This has nothing to do with convincing others that atheism does not exist. What this is about is you trying to create a comfortable belief system for yourself, where you can believe that people will be damned to hell forever, but you can feel good about it because it is their own fault.

Yes, I did. I offered myself as proof. You still haven't refuted it.

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You have to show your testimony is unimpeachable.

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Why is this? You really doubt that I am telling the truth about my beliefs? Do you think I am lying? Do you need a sworn, notarized affidavit? Do you think I don't understand my beliefs? Do you need a phychologist's report? Or are you merely setting an unreasonably high standard?At any rate, I know what I believe. If you are unwilling to listen to me about my beliefs, what can I say? The best proof that atheism exists is to present the atheists themselves -- but if you are just going to claim that their testimony isn't unimpeachable, then what can I say? You have made an assertian and now you proceed to discount any evidence that shows you wrong.So, what is your reason for posting this here? Are you just trying to get a rise out of people?

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...Do remember in debates he who asserts must provide compelling evidence.

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1. Provided evidence that professed atheism enhances mental wellness.

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Irrelevant.-

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2. Provided evidence that atheism exist.

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I did. You refuse to acknowledge it.

No.We would need evidence that people were martyred for their theistic beliefs. And we would need to prove that the reason they were killed was their beliefs, not because the political leaders were looking for scapegoats.And we would need evidence that theists were never unwavering in their theism.And there seems to be evidence that theists (THIS IS A JOKE!) tend to be obsessive with the morality of others, unduly respectful of authority, and tend to believe in fantastical, miraculous claims. Obvious, they are mentally unstable.

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I could continue but a dismissive "irrelevant" is not exactly great debate since the purpose of debate is to enhance the publics and participants knowledge.

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Lastly, you seem to be in denial about you providing less than compelling evidence.

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As I said, your unwillingness to accept the testimony of a professed atheist is not exactly great debate, either.-

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For example, if atheist are under mental strain due to running away from God one would expect that professed atheism does not enhance mental health.

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That's a pretty big "if" you got there.

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I should have said....

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Why? What good would that have done?

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If religion is an evolved trait, then atheists are excluding or denying this compulsion.

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I would be inclined to agree with this, Gilgamesh.Some of us, I feel, have substitutes for this. I would never deny that there is a spiritual side to my personality. I suspect this is true for most professed atheists, although I would never, unlike some posters, insist on knowing what others' beliefs and feelings are, especially if they denied it.

Schraf,None of the atheists you know are unimpeachable sources. Plus, they're crazy.

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I provided studies from a variety of social scientists....

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I don't need any studies from any social scientist to know what I believe.

Kendemyer, what data do you need to be convinced that atheists exist?

Is this what you are talking about?From your OP: Although it is possible that you would require one of these items on your list to convince you that atheism exists, they don't seem all that reasonable to me. Do you really require this sort of evidence for every belief that you hold? Or is atheism somehow a special topic for you?I certainly believe that you are sincere in your beliefs, and I even accept that you doubt the existence of atheists. And I do so without thinking about Christian martyrs, without demanding any polygraph tests, and without regard to any studies or the pontification of any authorities. I accept that you believe in God, that you doubt the existence of atheists based solely on your testimony. Am I foolish to do so? Should I be more skeptical of your beliefs?