Psychology looks at atheism and theism. Also, atheism is tenuous/non-existent/rare ..

Oh come on Schraff. All the proclaiming unbelievers I know think that God has something to do with fairytales/delusions. EVERY proclaiming unbeliever I have met mentions naturalism and the irrational position of "belief". At no time has a proclaiming unbeliever "seen" any design, apart from poor design, despite the fine-tuning of the universe. Hence the wild and desperate multiple universe theories.All my experience has shown me these basic positions; "But we've found out now how we came to be, through evolution, God didn't make us"..(This is a regular proclaimer's argument I've came across)Other well conjured and vastly superior arguments(lol) include "sky daddy" and "your dependent on emotion rather than intellect"....Lmao.SO I'm with Ken - prove you're an atheist. You have so far offered no evidence.I think it is reasonable that I think you proclaim atheism because of your own dissatisfaction with God, and you deep down know that God exists. You must wake up from these delusions that God doesn't exist, that regularly comfort you, despite your deep subconscious realization of God's existence. It's time to face this unavoidable reality. You have to stop this "comfort" reasoning which is emotional, and stop taking comfort from hoping death is the end.

I think the problem is that they're not practicing what they preach. Crashfrog offered a logical deduction as "evidence" he is atheist. But I could say;I am a killer
I existTherefore, a killer exists.However, I'm not a killer really, and so haven't provided evidence. My argument is validly deduced yet false.Though I have no reason to doubt Crashfrogs assertion, maybe he can apreciate the position of us believers a bit more now, when told we are emotional fruitcakes who believe in skydaddy, and we're told our prayers are false, post-hoc reasoning and confirmation biased.So yes, where's the evidence that you proclaiming unbelievers unbelieve? You certainly act as if you'd rather there wasn't a God. I'm curious. Surely a professing unbeliever would not argue so much against the idea of God unless his comfort zone is being attacked.

Mr Hambre. Your recent attacks of believer's worldview instead of concentrating on your own one, speak volumes. I recall not having a "rational leg to stand on". This is exactly what I'm talking about - with all the skydaddy and fairytale input I wanted, when I chose my bait this morning. My response to Schraff was in protest of her denying that atheists use the natural and science against God. If you and your buddy Dawkins aren't proof enough then I'll eat my socks. Thanks for proving my point; And I don't believe in design, it's evidenced everywhere. Listen, I apologize if I offende you but quite clearly this IS an emotional response to what I basically endure most days at atheist/secular forums. Let? Pardon me, but who are you to let me do anything? Is this planet Hambre? I don't recall needing your permission to have wisdom.Yet a little while, and I'll let you be atheist.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-02-2004 08:06 PM

Get your bunsen burner out, it's time for a supernatural experiment. No, I said, fine-tuned. Many scientists agree that the universe DOES look designed. Are you suggesting that only atheists you know qualify but not my experience of atheists? Fact is, in Britain, more and more people skit bibleGod and laugh at creation/design, and they tout evolution as a means of "no God". I have had it in my face, it happens. There is much to ridicule about people who believe they know everything, and that there can't possibly be anything beyond the natural. You have spoken well. Indeed I am no one to tell you what you believe. But I was asking for evidence, like you always do. Now now, that's the true scotsman fallacy Shraff, you know full well that anyone would qualify. (according to your side) Yet you say that my beliefs are made to comfort my fear of death????

May I request that people stop using foul language, thanks.I mean, a little is you know, understandable if you get a lil emotional, but I think atleast three unbelievers in this thread have used foul language. I can't see the justification of sending me dung if I'm sending you flowers.

You've refuted a position I never held. I didn't say they are the same thing. How is the complexity and obvious design of animals/universe laughable? Or comparable to a flat earth? Why should we accept abiogenesis when there is no evidence? There is design, and you know it. If you were truly objective, why do you favour the "no God" position? I don't really know. Everyone I know is atheist. So you seriously doubt a chance chemical evolution then? Well, transparency exists - pretty easy. Pink is a colour, and unicorns are from books. How do you know they are pink it they are invisible? How do you know they are unicorns if they are invisible? I gues transparency exists though. Who said I ever did? Is it logical for you to assume my position through your own pre-conception?

Dan, I'm quite sure, and I have no reason to doubt your disbelief. I said the same about Crashfrog aswell. I said I have no reason to doubt his atheism. All I'm doing is backing what Ken is saying concerning evidence. This has infuriated the few, or atleast, I seem to have annoyed your buddy Hambre, and maybe even you and Schraff. However, I admitt that my rant that Hambre objected to was a taunt.So I'd like to engage your question but it leads to a big Dan Frazier versus Mike Ali "super fight 12".

What claims are those then? Have I not said that my belief in Christ is down to belief? Why should I prove that which is set in motion by Christ himself? "Those who believe". If it was provable, then he would have said; "Those who evidence me/prove me, shall never die".However, you have been a bit sensitive about my comments to Schraff. I don't know why you're offended, and so - I am sorry if I upset you. I promise it wasn't my intention. My intention was to get people to apreciate my own position, by putting them in it.And it seems there is logic to all this controversy. It seems that it annoyed you when I accused you of being similar to an emotional person, denying reality and wanting "comfort" etc.. (Not that I accused you personally of this).....And so you got annoyed, and can now empathize with me. I know. It's so annoying isn't it. Here we say that everything you take stock in doesn't exist. Think! (You're intelligent!).....what did this last sentence remind you of? Can I offer a clue? Everything I take stock in is said to me (everyday), to not exist. So I mean, yes - ofcourse I know what's happening here.I'd like to know if you have ever prayed. I'd like to know Dan's answer aswell, if he chooses to take part.

Listen dude guy, why r so many ppl taking stock in what I say anyway? U r looking into what I say too much. So I guess I meant what I said, thus your own interpretations stand a chance of being personal ones.

Listen, I just don't see why the whining levels are sky high for something which is common place for me to go through each day. I just want ppl to apreciate this "sky daddy supporter"...Listen, who cares what I say anyway. Who the hell am I? Thanks. So infact, it seems there is some proof here, by testimony - that even atheist's pray. Why do they do this?As for ur question. I think it fair that I answer it. God is the eternal spirit and/or Creator of this and all universes. I cannot fully describe him. There are so many aspects.

Well, I mean, we all are. We all come here for some kind of emotion. Whether it be anger, frustration, fun etc... However, I' honestly not quite sure what u want me to say?? I'm here to read the reactions of Ken's controversy.As for my argument, have I got one? I guess I asked for proof you are atheist. Y is this such a bad thing for me to have done? Dude guy! answer me. Anyway, I'm sure if you say you're atheist, I've no reason to doubt it. I said that waaaaaay back there somewhere.

He is also the person of Christ. Obviously you know the drill cos u know I believe the bible. God is spirit, truth, love, beauty - all things good. Yet I'm sure I can never describe him fully, and some of my babble may even be unbiblical, so I'm sorry if I err here Buz. It's cold outside....... But then, some people r christian for twenty years, and then atheist for two years. So I mean, were they truly atheist? And what about prayer? Everyone has prayed surely. Is atheism a tangible trait? Can it be described as a denial of God? It might have been in the past? (Don't get angry again guys)

I didn't say any of that you naughty lil boy I tell u!

So, for people who claim the religious are intolerant, this isn't a lil intolerable? You have already admitted I should "defend". Ofcourse, it's not unbearable, infact - the opposite to that even. Quite barable, as, well, here I am. Nevertheless, it seems that the stamina of the none-believers needs some improving. As all I said is that you could be in denial of God, cos you don't want to face the truth of God, and I asked for evidence of atheism. Not that I doubt you are atheist, but you guys usually preach evidence yet you want atheism to escape being evidenced. Ho hum.You see, it's usually you folk that insist on evidence. And now it seems I am the bad guy for visiting it back. Yes. Dan Carroll also prayed, he also attributes it to youth in an attempt to rid the truth of the matter; that all people have prayed because they all know in God. Maybe a sneaky prayer was prayed when older even? Is atheism a tangible trait then?

Have you prayed recently?........--> Denial, incoming.