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Author Topic:   Psychology looks at atheism and theism. Also, atheism is tenuous/non-existent/rare ..
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 297 (139090)
09-02-2004 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kendemyer
09-01-2004 8:12 PM


quote:
Next, one must consider that to my knowledge there are no materialist martyrs
Nonsense; many communists have sacrificed their lives for the benefit of others and humanity in general. Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxembourg are probably the most famous, but I'd consider the bulk of the Russian Bolsheviks to qualify. Che Guevara of course is probably the most popularised.
quote:
... I have found that "freethinkers" have a strong penchant for appeals to authority, genetic logical fallacies, and are loathe to admit their errors or arguments that are poorly reasoned.
"what you have found" is not evidence, it is opinion.
This message has been edited by contracycle, 09-02-2004 05:27 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by kendemyer, posted 09-01-2004 8:12 PM kendemyer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by kendemyer, posted 09-02-2004 3:23 PM contracycle has replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 297 (139496)
09-03-2004 5:54 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by kendemyer
09-02-2004 3:23 PM


Re: to: crashfrog and contracyle
quote:
First I cite what I, kendemyer, wrote above which you never addressed:
You are correct, I didn't see it. But you are clearly wholly unfamiliar with the Russian revolution which rather cripples your case.
quote:
You are not showing that the reason why the Communist soldiers killed themselves was because of atheism. It could have been nationalism or a belief that capitalism was inherently evil.
Seeing as communism is a materialist philosophy, "evil" is not in its lexicon. It uses terms like exploitative, for example, to indicate what they think is wrong, rather than hang an emotive sign on it.
The RR was also not a national liberation struggle, because the country was not under foreign or colonial occupation. Furthermore, the Bolsheviks were heavily into doing things themselves rather than delegating it to others: even the work of the CHEKA was necessarily rotated through all party members.
So, there is not basis to attributiong to them a position that capitalism is "evil", nor for national liberation. Andnit cannot be claimed that the7y wer e"just" using communist soldiers if the reasons those communists had taken up arms was precisely their materialist analysis of the situation.
quote:
I realize that you did make an effort to produce evidence and I appreciate this but I do not think it is of high or moderate degree of quality.
I suggest you practice what you preach - your whole argument about communists in this regard displays a huge degree of assumption, and no research. Liebknecht and Luxembourg were executed by the Nazis, and were not soldiers. Che gave up a western lifestyle to die in a muddy field.
It is you who made the strong assertion that there are NO materialist marytyrs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by kendemyer, posted 09-02-2004 3:23 PM kendemyer has not replied

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 297 (140281)
09-06-2004 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by kendemyer
09-03-2004 3:41 PM


Re: To Ken
quote:
This is a straw man. I clearly admitted that to my knowledge there is no definitive profesed materialist martyr (no other likely variables affecting outcome such as nationalism, politics, etc). So far, the professed materialist have not brought any definitive martyrs from their side of the aisle. There are many non-nationalist and non overtly political Christian martyrs.
Religion is a form of politics, Ken. Examples were offered, you have not challenged them, they stand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by kendemyer, posted 09-03-2004 3:41 PM kendemyer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by kendemyer, posted 09-06-2004 10:06 PM contracycle has not replied

  
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