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Author Topic:   The UK Election!!!!
Larni
Member
Posts: 3644
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 361 of 385 (567468)
07-01-2010 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 359 by Hyroglyphx
07-01-2010 9:54 AM


Re: Politicus Maximus
Yeah, Larni, where have you been!?

I could ask you the same question

Got to say I was suprised to find out who you are/were: I remember thinking when you arrived (as Hyro) that I could not get a handle on which side of the fence you were on.

Like the albino Vader...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-01-2010 9:54 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Huntard, posted 07-01-2010 10:15 AM Larni has not yet responded
 Message 363 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-01-2010 11:12 AM Larni has responded

    
Huntard
Member
Posts: 2854
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 362 of 385 (567471)
07-01-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Larni
07-01-2010 10:09 AM


Re: Politicus Maximus
Larni writes:

Like the albino Vader...


Actually, it's a "Hello Kitty" Vader.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Larni, posted 07-01-2010 10:09 AM Larni has not yet responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 363 of 385 (567484)
07-01-2010 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 361 by Larni
07-01-2010 10:09 AM


Re: Politicus Maximus
Got to say I was suprised to find out who you are/were: I remember thinking when you arrived (as Hyro) that I could not get a handle on which side of the fence you were on.

That's probably because when I got here under the pseudonym of "Hyro" I probably didn't know what side of the fence I was on either. I'm still evolving. Or maybe I'm a perennial fence-sitter.


"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." Blaise Pascal
This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 364 of 385 (567485)
07-01-2010 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by AZPaul3
07-01-2010 10:01 AM


Sounds as if I wouldn't like any of those parties based on the descriptions.


"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." Blaise Pascal
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3644
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 365 of 385 (567537)
07-01-2010 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Hyroglyphx
07-01-2010 11:12 AM


Re: Politicus Maximus
Well, it's nice to see old names popping back here; hope it pathes the way for other exodites to return.
This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 9817
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 366 of 385 (572067)
08-03-2010 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 348 by Modulous
07-01-2010 7:18 AM


Re: Nick Clegg announces Legend's dream
Mod writes:

The website can be found here. I suppose this is a 'good start' for Legend - what do you think?

The deep cynic in me says that it is the current government's way of justifying it's ideological position by seeking ill considered and largely reactionary public opinion in those areas where it thinks those two things are compatible.

The optimist in me believes that this is a whole new form of politics, that a new dawn has broken, and that we can look forward to a politics of people-power that none of us could have even envisaged before May this year.

Guess which of the two versions of me is winning that internal struggle....

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


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Straggler
Member
Posts: 9817
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 367 of 385 (572068)
08-03-2010 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by AZPaul3
07-01-2010 10:01 AM


Should I Join?
A decent synopsis. And now we have the Labour party soul searching it's identity and looking for it's next leader.

I am seriously considering joining the Labour party so as to be able to vote on that issue.

AbE - I was a member as a student but gave up membership at the point they started (outrageously in my view at the time) wanting to charge me a membership subscription.

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


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Straggler
Member
Posts: 9817
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 368 of 385 (614578)
05-05-2011 6:16 AM


UK Referendum on AV
We in the UK are having a referendum!! The first in 30/40 years and (I believe) only the second one ever.

We are voting on whether to change our parliamentary electoral system from First Past The Post to AV (Alternative Vote) AKA Instant Runoff (in the US).

Any thoughts? Any Aussies who have experience of AV? Any UK members who have actually voted?

I voted YES this morning.

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Wounded King, posted 05-05-2011 6:25 AM Straggler has responded

  
Wounded King
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 369 of 385 (614580)
05-05-2011 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by Straggler
05-05-2011 6:16 AM


Re: UK Referendum on AV
Any UK members who have actually voted?

I voted yes this morning as well, but I'm not hopeful.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 9817
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 370 of 385 (614583)
05-05-2011 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by Wounded King
05-05-2011 6:25 AM


Re: UK Referendum on AV
A year ago there seemed to be a broad consensus that electoral reform was needed. Since then the mood has changed and it is looking increasingly unlikely.

Certainly it is looking like something of a landslide for the 'No's in this referendum.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 371 of 385 (614609)
05-05-2011 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 370 by Straggler
05-05-2011 6:57 AM


Re: UK Referendum on AV
A year ago there seemed to be a broad consensus that electoral reform was needed. Since then the mood has changed and it is looking increasingly unlikely.

I think the referendum is being viewed as a bizarre and unnecesaary distraction from the far more immediate concerns for the economy...


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Replies to this message:
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Wounded King
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 372 of 385 (614610)
05-05-2011 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by cavediver
05-05-2011 11:33 AM


Re: UK Referendum on AV
I think it is being viewed as a way to give Nick Clegg a kick in the teeth, a view that the No campaign has been happy to promulgate.

Much as I might like to give Nick Clegg a figurative kick in the teeth I'd rather not throw away possibly the only chance we'll get for a generation or more to do something about the iniquities of the current voting system. And I don't want to not vote for it just because the economy has tanked either, though I'm sure the No vote camp would be happy with that result as well.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
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ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1241
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 373 of 385 (614673)
05-05-2011 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Straggler
05-05-2011 6:57 AM


Re: UK Referendum on AV
Can anyone point me to good description of the opposition to this reform? Why wouldnt you want to define your opinion to a higher degree? Are the mechanics of the proposal wrong?

Here in Canada the Conservative party just won 54.2% of the seats in parliament with 39.6% of the popular vote. The Liberals 11% of the seats with 18.9% of the votes. The Green Party won .003% of the seats in parliament with 3.9% of the popular vote. The New Democrats got 33% of seats with 30.6% of the votes.

This just seems wrong. Wouldnt the AV proposal reduce this discrepancy?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 6086
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 374 of 385 (614684)
05-05-2011 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 373 by ProtoTypical
05-05-2011 7:14 PM


Re: UK Referendum on AV

  • AV is costly (citing $250 million in costs)
  • AV is complex and unfair (citing people that come second in the first round can still win)
  • AV leads to more hung parliaments, backroom deals and broken promises

http://www.no2av.org/why-vote-no/


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Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by Straggler, posted 05-06-2011 1:03 PM Modulous has responded
 Message 381 by caffeine, posted 05-11-2011 11:03 AM Modulous has responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 9817
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 375 of 385 (614781)
05-06-2011 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Modulous
05-05-2011 11:24 PM


Re: UK Referendum on AV
Mod writes:


  • AV is costly (citing $250 million in costs)
  • AV is complex and unfair (citing people that come second in the first round can still win)
  • AV leads to more hung parliaments, backroom deals and broken promises

The only argument against AV of those you cite that I think has any real merit is the last one. Coalition government does arguably result in manifesto pledges being completely discarded on the basis of coalition "compromise". Thus making political manifestos little more than wish lists.

However I am unconvinced that manifesto pledges were much more than that anyway. And (assuming the Lib Dems haven't wiped themselves out in the longer term with their current unpopularity) the UK seemed to be heading for a 3 party system where coalition would be the norm even via the first past the post system.

It isn't the most considered of reasons but I think the whole system could have benefited from a shake-up generally. On top of that I do think that a 'No' in this referendum marks the effective death of any more progress on any electoral reform for a considerable amount of time. Whereas AV, if implemented and found wanting, would have been the first step towards something else.

Out of interest - Did you vote and if so what for? Feel free to ignore that question if you don't want to answer it however.

Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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