Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
0 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Importance of Original Sin
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 244 of 1198 (639961)
11-05-2011 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by jaywill
11-05-2011 9:55 AM


The Bible doesn't say that Adam sinned.
Sorry but until after eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil there was no way Adam could know that he should obey the God character in the story over the Eve character or the Serpent.
And in addition, what you quoted also supports the absurdity of Original Sin as marketed in many of today's chapters of Club Christian.
Genesis 3 is very specific about what the punishment was for disobedience and there is no mention of any immediate death, of any spiritual separation, of any spiritual death, of any condemnation other than the specific ones listed in the story.
quote:
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
  —Genesis 3
There is simply no good Biblical support for Original sin but it is a great marketing tool for the Christian Snake Oil salesmen.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by jaywill, posted 11-05-2011 9:55 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by jaywill, posted 11-05-2011 11:53 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 247 of 1198 (639971)
11-05-2011 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by jaywill
11-05-2011 11:53 AM


Re: The Bible doesn't say that Adam sinned.
No, I'm actually posting what t6he Bible says and in context, not quote mining for profit.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by jaywill, posted 11-05-2011 11:53 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by jaywill, posted 11-05-2011 3:45 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 249 of 1198 (639983)
11-05-2011 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by jaywill
11-05-2011 3:45 PM


Re: The Bible doesn't say that Adam sinned.
Not at all. It seems that much of Christianity today is just a profitable way to move money from the pockets of folk like you to the preachers, pastors and bishops that start all the new chapters of Club Christian, and the marketing tool of "Original Sin", "being Born Again", "getting Saved" are the products that the Snake Oil Salesmen peddle.
It's a very profitable business with marvelous tax advantages, lots of legal protection and absolutely no product liability.
That is the importance of "Original Sin" in Christianity today. It's a classic FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) product. Other than being yet another way to maintain the flow of gold coming in to the chapter Treasury and as a tool to keep the members in line, "Original Sin" is of absolutely no importance.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by jaywill, posted 11-05-2011 3:45 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 11-06-2011 2:08 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 251 of 1198 (639997)
11-06-2011 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
11-06-2011 2:08 AM


Re: Club Christian report card
Yes, people can behave poorly and people can behave well, but that is not "Original Sin"; it is what they do, not some inherited sin. Enough of this OLD Sin, let's have some NEW Sin.
And have you never listened to "Christian Radio" or watched a Televangelist? It is simply one advertisement after another, selling everything and anything including worthless stuff like "Original Sin", "are you Born Again?" and "Have you been Saved?".

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 11-06-2011 2:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 11-06-2011 5:54 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 257 of 1198 (640011)
11-06-2011 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Phat
11-06-2011 5:54 PM


Re: Its what we do,not what we are
It's comforting to be able to say that it's "sin nature" or "original sin" instead of having to say "it's my fault" isn't it,.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 11-06-2011 5:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 11-07-2011 11:15 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 260 of 1198 (640118)
11-07-2011 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
11-07-2011 11:15 AM


Re: Its what we do,not what we are
Again, looks like just more justification for behaving badly and that is one reason Christianity has been so successful.
It's easy finding excuses for not doing what is right, isn't it?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 11-07-2011 11:15 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 11:47 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 262 of 1198 (640304)
11-08-2011 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
11-08-2011 11:47 AM


Re: Its what we do,not what we are
Not quite.
I have absolutely no idea what "Original Discernment" would even mean.
We all have the capability of knowing right from wrong, just as we all have the capability of walking or thinking or talking, but it is a capability that must be used, practiced, learned to be useful.
If someone refuses to learn to walk, learn to talk, learn how to think then yes, they are responsible for the outcome.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 11:47 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 12:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 264 of 1198 (640315)
11-08-2011 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Phat
11-08-2011 12:58 PM


Re: Original Sin and practical repentance
Yes, I know that your opinion is "No."
Yet you also claim "entitlement".
Had your wealth and land and culture and language and traditions and beliefs been stolen from you by force would you not want and deserve compensation?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 12:58 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 3:36 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 266 of 1198 (640324)
11-08-2011 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
11-08-2011 3:36 PM


Re: Definition of whats right,good, and fair
Did they benefit from the acts?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 3:36 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 3:48 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 268 of 1198 (640327)
11-08-2011 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by Phat
11-08-2011 3:48 PM


Re: Definition of whats right,good, and fair
It's fun making up stories to justify your behavior, isn't it?
And that in a nutshell is the importance of "Original Sin". It is a handy justification for mankind not doing what it should do.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 3:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 3:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 270 of 1198 (640334)
11-08-2011 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Phat
11-08-2011 3:58 PM


Re: Definition of whats right,good, and fair
It's fun finding ways to justify your behavior, isn't it?
And that in a nutshell is the importance of "Original Sin". It is a handy justification for mankind not doing what it should do.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 11-08-2011 3:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by jaywill, posted 11-09-2011 7:47 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 273 of 1198 (640406)
11-09-2011 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by jaywill
11-09-2011 7:47 AM


Re: Definition of whats right,good, and fair
Besides being just a really silly comment, what does that have to do with the topic?
Also, I would imagine that the average Atheist is at least as moral as the average Christian and in most cases, likely more moral.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by jaywill, posted 11-09-2011 7:47 AM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 11:08 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 276 of 1198 (640529)
11-10-2011 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by Phat
11-10-2011 11:08 AM


Re: Definition of whats right,good, and fair
And that relates to the topic in what way?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 11:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 1:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 278 of 1198 (640554)
11-10-2011 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Phat
11-10-2011 1:02 PM


Re: Definition of whats right,good, and fair
Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian and so would most likely have held the Jewish position on the subject. In Judaism there is no concept comparable to the "Original Sin", "Once Saved" or "Born Again" products marketed in Christianity.
AbE:
I also need to say that a statement like "Doing whats right and wrong means one has the mind of Christ." is just complete crap an of no informational content or value.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 1:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 8:19 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 280 of 1198 (640590)
11-10-2011 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Phat
11-10-2011 8:19 PM


Re: Definition of whats right,good, and fair
That has nothing to do with the topic, but do you honestly think that Jesus would support the robbers and not the robbed?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 8:19 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Phat, posted 11-10-2011 10:48 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024