|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Catholicism versus Protestantism down the centuries | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I've been trying to research Winthrop and the Puritans concerning slavery. I've found assertions that they favored slavery and had slaves, I have not found anything that definitely proves it such as writings from the principals involved. I've found one site that mentions that an English ship had taken twenty natives as slaves and sold them and one of them returned and having learned English befriended new English settlers. I haven't yet found anything that proves anything about the Puritans one way or the other.
He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
|
But this is a side issue anyway. I still claim that jar's notion that Protestantism reflects unreality is historically obtuse because whether anybody here wants to acknowledge it or not the Reformation always was understood to have contributed to enormous improvements in all the areas on that list of "assertions" I provided. So you are going to defend the assertions with assertions. Oh yes a personal attack against Jar too.
not just assertions of the personal opinionated sort jar posts which nobody challenges. Now back to the topic if it's possible
Are you freaking serious? You post a bunch of bullshit, not backed with anything except christianist bullshit, assertions and you now want to make a claim of off-topic. Go take a flying leap. This topic is not"Any crap Faith wants to post and no one else can challenge her" If you want that as a topic present it. I am sure Phat will promote it. Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
This is silly criticism when one reads about the 10 big lies in the book authored by Michael Medved. Michael medved is a movie critic that turned into a rightwing nutjob. Nothing he has to say about history has any validity unless you can provide relevant sources. As Mr. Medved has no sources other than his own say so. He is not a historian a scholar or have any expertise to say a damn thing about history. His writings about history are assertions with no sources to back up.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
I've been trying to research Winthrop and the Puritans concerning slavery. I've found assertions that they favored slavery and had slaves, I have not found anything that definitely proves it such as writings from the principals involved. I've found one site that mentions that an English ship had taken twenty natives as slaves and sold them and one of them returned and having learned English befriended new English settlers. I haven't yet found anything that proves anything about the Puritans one way or the other. You are freaking priceless. You have no problem making assertion after assertion, but if someone shows you something you don't want to believe you demand original source material. Faith you are a troll.
READOh and take some classes. quote: quote: Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.7 |
Hi jar,
jar writes: Ain't the Bible wonderful? It is so filled with contradictions and factual errors that any position or point of view can be supported by quote mining. I know that is what you believe. But if you will read the text you quoted you will see that it is nations that stood before Christ at this judgment. The nations are divided some on the left and some on the right. The nations that have helped those in need will enter into the 1000 year reign of Christ. The nations that did not will be cast into the lake of fire. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
It matters not whether they are nations or individuals, it is still a division and judgement based on works with no mention of faith or belief.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kofh2u Member (Idle past 3851 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Michael medved is a movie critic that turned into a rightwing nutjob. Nothing he has to say about history has any validity unless you can provide relevant sources. As Mr. Medved has no sources other than his own say so. He is not a historian a scholar or have any expertise to say a damn thing about history. His writings about history are assertions with no sources to back up.
Your appeal to authority is duly noted, however Medved makes the assertion that the first colony had on 35 residents which is a fact he references I am certain. His thanks giving description of the events leading up to the formation of this first small group of settlers and the difficulties and hard ships they endured seem to be valid in the defense of the attacks upon them set forth here. It is also emotionally difficult for people to go back and find any kind of justice in many initially terrible matters from one point of view, and see the Social Darwin beneficial effects in the long run for a peoples who had to suffer the purging from the womb of the Dark Ages. I point to India, plundered and reigned over for a Century, but now benefiting from English domination that forced that country int the 21st century. On might note that while that atrocity was occurring, the white citizens in the Feudal System in their own nations were fair little better. It would be nice and very sensitive indeed to go back and point to the cruelty of these transitions so we could commiserate with the present descents in every case, but fairness ought refer to the benefits to the generations that followed such naturally occurring adaptations to the environment.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kofh2u Member (Idle past 3851 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
The nations that have helped those in need will enter into the 1000 year reign of Christ. The nations that did not will be cast into the lake of fire.
Interesting...But of course those would be the rather corrupt and ungodly European nations which composed the 1000 year theocracy of Universal Christianity during the Dark Ages. My own view on the passages is that they refer to the present moment, the End Times, since this concern the final White Throne Judgment Day. The fractionalized denominational Christian Churches are the sheep and the goats who have taken up collections for the stated purpose of doing the Charity the membership has committed itself to by tithing. Those organizations which plainly have stored up massive riches and done little in terms of %, are the goats which will be judged when the "expected one" arrives and explains what is really in the book he opens in Rev 5:5.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Your appeal to authority is duly noted
Take a lesson on logical fallacies. You obviously don't understand this one at all. Here try reading this. I know you won't, because you truly do not want to learn anything because you already know everything don't you.
quote: So you see, you are the one committing the fallacy.
however Medved makes the assertion that the first colony had on 35 residents which is a fact he references I am certain.
How about providing the reference. This point means absolutely nothing, not sure what your point is, but be fun to see what you and he consider sources.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 315 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Uh huh, clever and cute and all that, but the point was, of course, to disagree with those who are trying to reduce the Protestant Reformation to an insignificant little spat with Rome that we should all just get over, forgive and forget and all that. Neither side at the time considered it so insignificant and the terms they used against the other demonstrate that point. The distinctions have been getting eroded and corrupted but there are still those who hold to the original doctrines who recognize that the chasm is in fact unbridgeable. Sure. Though I think some of those people are exaggerating a little. The Catholic doctrine of grace is not in fact so far from that held by many Protestants; but it's to the interest of Protestant propagandists to misrepresent it as such. Indeed, many Protestants may be closer to Thomas Aquinas on the issue of grace than they are to John Calvin, but they're encouraged to think of themselves as being on the same team as the Calvinists.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.7 |
Hi CS,
CS writes: It doesn't say all that, you added a bunch. It doesn't mention baptism or church or tithes or sacraments. It just says that we are saved by grace through faith. Faith plus works salvation is not contradicted with that quote, it too says we're saved by grace through faith, it just goes on to say that you have to do works to justify your faith. Good you noticed that none of those things were mentioned in the text only that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works.
CS writes: And the way you show that you've accepted the gift is through the works you do as a result of it. If you're not doing the works, then you didn't accept the gift. Ergo, we do need to have works too. I agree that anyone who has been born again by receiving the free gift of God of eternal life will want to serve Him and give Him honor and glory. And the first thing a person has to do to follow Jesus after he/she has been born again is to be baptized as Jesus was. Then there are a lot of things He tells us to do, in His Word.
CS writes: Sure, but not just that. What part of John 3:18 that says: "Whoever believes in him will not be condemned," do you not understand? What part of John 3:18 that says: "but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God", do you not understand?
CS writes: Well as jar points out, It does not make any difference what jar or I say about what the text says. The only thing that matters is what the text says.
CS writes: No, they're not enough. You're adding more to them than what they say. Plus, the Bible has other parts that go directly against the faith alone position:
quote: Why didn't you quote the following verse in James?
quote: You can not show anyone your faith without your works. You can tell me you are a christian until you are blue in the face if you do not produce fruit for Christ I will not believe you are a christian. You can tell me you are a christian until you are blue in the face and if you will not accept what the Bible says I will not believe you are a christian. More scripture. I am quoting the authorize Catholic Bible, The New American Bible
quote: quote: God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kofh2u Member (Idle past 3851 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject.
Its nice that you have the position of deciding those matters of legitimacy. Who do you refer us to, in regard to how many more than 35 people intially formed the original company of the first colony?And, just how wrong in his numbers was michael????
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
kofh2u Member (Idle past 3851 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
Good you noticed that none of those things were mentioned in the text only that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works.
As the church aged during the first 1000 year of Universal Christianity, the corruption and laziness dropped off the end of the now oft repeated expression of "save by faith,... in The Truth"... implied. Mankind is saved by faith in seeing the Truth about this Reality which both threatens and nurtures us.But faith is some vague fantasy of a religious theology about repeating faith, faith, faith as a mantra is sure death and destruction. Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.7 |
Hi jar,
jar writes: LOLIt matters not whether they are nations or individuals, it is still a division and judgement based on works with no mention of faith or belief. There is not a person at that judgment that has received eternal life. The reward for the sheep nations is to fulfill a promise made to Abraham that those who blessed his descendants would be blessed. Everyone at this judgment that enters the earth kingdom will have 100 years to get things right with Jesus. These are the only people that will have a second chance. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.7 |
Hi kofh,
kofh writes: My own view on the passages is that they refer to the present moment, the End Times, since this concern the final White Throne Judgment Day. So you disagree with Matthew who says the nations will be gathered and the nations will be divided. Do you believe the Bible? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024