Catholicism versus Protestantism down the centuries

I've been trying to research Winthrop and the Puritans concerning slavery. I've found assertions that they favored slavery and had slaves, I have not found anything that definitely proves it such as writings from the principals involved. I've found one site that mentions that an English ship had taken twenty natives as slaves and sold them and one of them returned and having learned English befriended new English settlers. I haven't yet found anything that proves anything about the Puritans one way or the other.

So you are going to defend the assertions with assertions.Oh yes a personal attack against Jar too. Are you freaking serious? You post a bunch of bullshit, not backed with anything except christianist bullshit, assertions and you now want to make a claim of off-topic.Go take a flying leap.This topic is not
"Any crap Faith wants to post and no one else can challenge her"If you want that as a topic present it. I am sure Phat will promote it.Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Michael medved is a movie critic that turned into a rightwing nutjob. Nothing he has to say about history has any validity unless you can provide relevant sources. As Mr. Medved has no sources other than his own say so.He is not a historian a scholar or have any expertise to say a damn thing about history. His writings about history are assertions with no sources to back up.

You are freaking priceless. You have no problem making assertion after assertion, but if someone shows you something you don't want to believe you demand original source material.Faith you are a troll. READ
Oh and take some classes.

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In 1645, Emanuel Downing, brother-in-law of John Winthrop, wrote to him longing for a "juste warre" with the Pequots, so the colonists might capture enough Indian men, women, and children to exchange in Barbados for black slaves, because the colony would never thrive "untill we gett ... a stock of slaves sufficient to doe all our business."

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A Massachusetts law of 1641 specifically linked slavery to Biblical authority, and established for slaves the set of rules "which the law of God, established in Israel concerning such people, doth morally require." When two Massachusetts slave merchants joined with London slave raiders in a massacre of an African village in 1645, the colonial government registered its indignation, because the two men were guilty of the Biblical crime of "man-stealing" (kidnapping Africans instead of acquiring them in the approved way, in exchange for rum or trinkets) -- and because the slaughter of 100 or so villagers had taken place on a Sunday.

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Hi jar, I know that is what you believe.But if you will read the text you quoted you will see that it is nations that stood before Christ at this judgment.The nations are divided some on the left and some on the right.The nations that have helped those in need will enter into the 1000 year reign of Christ. The nations that did not will be cast into the lake of fire.God Bless,

LOLIt matters not whether they are nations or individuals, it is still a division and judgement based on works with no mention of faith or belief.

Your appeal to authority is duly noted, however Medved makes the assertion that the first colony had on 35 residents which is a fact he references I am certain.His thanks giving description of the events leading up to the formation of this first small group of settlers and the difficulties and hard ships they endured seem to be valid in the defense of the attacks upon them set forth here.It is also emotionally difficult for people to go back and find any kind of justice in many initially terrible matters from one point of view, and see the Social Darwin beneficial effects in the long run for a peoples who had to suffer the purging from the womb of the Dark Ages.I point to India, plundered and reigned over for a Century, but now benefiting from English domination that forced that country int the 21st century.On might note that while that atrocity was occurring, the white citizens in the Feudal System in their own nations were fair little better.It would be nice and very sensitive indeed to go back and point to the cruelty of these transitions so we could commiserate with the present descents in every case, but fairness ought refer to the benefits to the generations that followed such naturally occurring adaptations to the environment.

Interesting...
But of course those would be the rather corrupt and ungodly European nations which composed the 1000 year theocracy of Universal Christianity during the Dark Ages.My own view on the passages is that they refer to the present moment, the End Times, since this concern the final White Throne Judgment Day.The fractionalized denominational Christian Churches are the sheep and the goats who have taken up collections for the stated purpose of doing the Charity the membership has committed itself to by tithing.Those organizations which plainly have stored up massive riches and done little in terms of %, are the goats which will be judged when the "expected one" arrives and explains what is really in the book he opens in Rev 5:5.

Take a lesson on logical fallacies. You obviously don't understand this one at all.Here try reading this. I know you won't, because you truly do not want to learn anything because you already know everything don't you.

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This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.

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So you see, you are the one committing the fallacy. How about providing the reference. This point means absolutely nothing, not sure what your point is, but be fun to see what you and he consider sources.

Sure. Though I think some of those people are exaggerating a little. The Catholic doctrine of grace is not in fact so far from that held by many Protestants; but it's to the interest of Protestant propagandists to misrepresent it as such.Indeed, many Protestants may be closer to Thomas Aquinas on the issue of grace than they are to John Calvin, but they're encouraged to think of themselves as being on the same team as the Calvinists.

Hi CS, Good you noticed that none of those things were mentioned in the text only that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. I agree that anyone who has been born again by receiving the free gift of God of eternal life will want to serve Him and give Him honor and glory. And the first thing a person has to do to follow Jesus after he/she has been born again is to be baptized as Jesus was. Then there are a lot of things He tells us to do, in His Word. What part of John 3:18 that says: "Whoever believes in him will not be condemned," do you not understand?What part of John 3:18 that says: "but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God", do you not understand? It does not make any difference what jar or I say about what the text says. The only thing that matters is what the text says. Why didn't you quote the following verse in James?

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James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

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You can not show anyone your faith without your works.You can tell me you are a christian until you are blue in the face if you do not produce fruit for Christ I will not believe you are a christian.You can tell me you are a christian until you are blue in the face and if you will not accept what the Bible says I will not believe you are a christian.More scripture.I am quoting the authorize Catholic Bible, The New American Bible

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John 10: 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you 12 and you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify to me.

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26 But you do not believe, because you are not among my sheep.

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27 My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

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28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can take them out of my hand.

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29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, 13 and no one can take them out of the Father's hand.

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30 The Father and I are one."

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Luke 8:12 Those on the path are the ones who have heard, but the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts that they may not believe and be saved.

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Luke 18:42 Jesus told him, "Have sight; your faith has saved you."

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God Bless,

Its nice that you have the position of deciding those matters of legitimacy.Who do you refer us to, in regard to how many more than 35 people intially formed the original company of the first colony?
And, just how wrong in his numbers was michael????

As the church aged during the first 1000 year of Universal Christianity, the corruption and laziness dropped off the end of the now oft repeated expression of "save by faith,... in The Truth"... implied.Mankind is saved by faith in seeing the Truth about this Reality which both threatens and nurtures us.
But faith is some vague fantasy of a religious theology about repeating faith, faith, faith as a mantra is sure death and destruction.Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

Hi jar, There is not a person at that judgment that has received eternal life.The reward for the sheep nations is to fulfill a promise made to Abraham that those who blessed his descendants would be blessed.Everyone at this judgment that enters the earth kingdom will have 100 years to get things right with Jesus. These are the only people that will have a second chance.God Bless,

Hi kofh, So you disagree with Matthew who says the nations will be gathered and the nations will be divided.Do you believe the Bible?God Bless,