Catholicism versus Protestantism down the centuries

I'm not interested in anything you have to say if you aren't addressing my point, sorry.And if you aren't, then just go away.

You need to get out more - do you have a passport?Nations rise and fall, power and influence changes. Greeks, Romans, Aztecs, Russians, Chinese all had their time. The industrial revolution and its Empire was the Brit's time (and arose from a joint Catholic/protestant nation).The USA has had a good run for its money and has had its share of Catholics - immigrants from Europe and now Mexico. 20 years ago Japan had the world at its feet, now it's the BRICS time (Brazil, India China).You have a shallow, parochial and egocentric view of the world from science to economics and history. The world is not going to end in your lifetime just because you think you're important. Just isn't going to happen - sorry.

Yeah, it's all just accidental and random, oh sure. Nothing to do with the fact that the Brits were once a powerful Christian nation. The Catholic influence was more of a drag than a help in that regard but I won't get into that, you DID have a powerful Protestantism and if you can't see the cause-effect relationship I'd suggest you need to do some more reading in areas that you probably avoid.Nations rise and fall according to God's directives, scripture says so, and it mostly has to do with their following His laws or not. Even unbelievers have His laws written in your hearts, but as long as nations pursue idolatries they can't last too long and down they have to go eventually.If God would have mercy and bring us all back to Him we'd see an amazing resurgence of the power and prosperity and moral greatness that once was. Or maybe He'll strengthen the Church in China which has been growing over the last few decades. Tangle's Theory of History as Taking Turns. Any explanation why there should be any kind of pattern at all in your random meaningless universe? I mean why shouldn't one nation get to the top and stay there forever? You certainly have no clue. It's the God who made us all who is important and who calls the shots in this world. You're going down, so are we. Not too long a wait there either I'd bet you.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So taxing people is socialism?

Taxes for the purpose of supporting people is socialism, not taxes for the valid functions of government.

You really haven't read the Bible have you?Pay unto Caesar...or when Jesus took from the treasury to buy sweet oils for himself and the disciples objected?

You really haven't read the Bible, The 95 Thesis or the Constitution have you?

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

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Just as I don't have a personal view of biology, geology, physics and palaeontology I also don't have a personal view of history and economics. I rely on what those who actually know something about those subjects tell me.You see, my world view does not need me to make every fact fit into a book of ancient mythology that shows itself to be wronger every passing minute.But to get back to your new madness; protestantism has been around about 400-500 years. Before then empires came and went and since then empire have come and gone - some even Christian. But somehow a theoretical protestant nation is special?(The USA has never been a protestant nation btw, if you want a predominantly protestant country, you need to look at Wales - sadly its empire didn't last either. In fact it never got to have one.)Even though, as you are saying, the USA's power and influence is waining just like all powerful states have done and always will do. Can't be that special then; can't be the one the world has been waiting for. In fact it has by your definition already failed.If you really want to learn why empires decline I suggest you settle back and do a few years of reading and research because this has been discussed for centuries - you really don't have to make all this up too. But you will won't you?

so you decide what is a valid function of government?I sure hope you don't use any government programs. Because that would make you a lying hypocrite.

I have addressed your point, so now I've pretty much got nothing else to do except wonder whether you're a retard or a liar.

You know , a lot of people do a lot of lying about the Talmud. There are a number of passages in the Talmud about people named 'Jesus'. There were a lot of people named Jesus!Just because someone is named "Jesus" doesn't mean that it is talking about "Jesus of Nazareth"How about you quoting the relevant passage, including chapter , verse, and it could be looked at in context?It seems that is something that fundamentalists don't do. Look at passages in context that is.

Don't be naive, Ramoss. The Pharisees of Jesus' day accused him of being a bastard, that's in scripture, do you need me to dig that up? It makes sense of course. We say He's God come in the flesh, they say he was just a man, and since Mary was pregnant before she and Joseph set up housekeeping together what else would they say but that He was a bastard? Given the opportunity today many orthodox Jews would say the same thing against Jesus Christ. Even my very friendly email friend said things I eventually couldn't take any more. He felt the same about my rejection of his Judaism and that was the end of that. It makes sense that the Talmud would say the same thing. Luther had a reason for denouncing the Jews after naively extending the hand of friendship to them. The evidence may be circumstantial but it's very strong circumstantial evidence.

Really?? Where did the Pharisee's say that?You do realize that the Jewish religion and culture does not have the concept of a 'bastard'. they have the concept of a mamzer, which is the products of one of the sexual relations that are forbidden.. but not a bastard. A mamzer would be considered toevah, and not allowed in the temple or synagoge, which, according to the gospels, he was allowed.Let's see if you can back up your claims with , you know, sources, to show you aren't making it up.Yes, some very anti-Semitic groups made claims about what is in the Talmud. .. but, a lot of that is either purely made up or taken out of context. ... actually, pretty damn all of it is.Let's see your sources. Let's see how reliiable they are, and just not folks spreading hate.Edited by ramoss, : No reason given.

Do you worship Martin Luther? After all, he's just a man.The reasons you supply for denouncing the Jews are exactly the same as the excuses you could find mouthed by anybody on alt.revisionism back in the day. Luther was a passionate, but flawed person, and not everything he did was virtuous. He hated Jews for being what Jews are, namely non-converts to belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ.

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First, that we avoid their synagogues and schools and warn people against them. And such should be done to the glory of God and Christendom, that God may see that we are Christians and have not knowingly tolerated such lying, cursing and blaspheming of His Son and His
Christians. For what we so far have tolerated in ignorance (I myself did not know it), God will forgive us. Now that we know it, however, and in spite should before our very noses tolerate such a building for the Jew in which they blaspheme, curse, spit upon and disgrace Christ and us, that would be simply too much, as if we did it ourselves and much worse, as you well know. Moses writes in Deuteronomy that where a city practiced idolatry, it should be entirely destroyed with fire and leave nothing. If he were living today he would be the first to put fire to the Jew schools and houses. [followed by proofs from Scripture.]

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Secondly, that you also refuse to let them own houses among us. For they practice the same thing in their houses as they do in their schools. Instead, you might place them under a roof, or stable, like the Gypsies, to let them know that they are not lords in our country as they boast, but in exile as captives; like without ceasing they howl bloody murder and complain about us before God.

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And then you try to pretend that the man was justified in his attitudes. Do you not understand that Martin Luther advocated that the Jews be driven out of their lands and killed? Only a few people in history wanted the Jews out of Germany as vehemently as did Martin Luther. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I don't defend Luther's recommendations, I just react against all this denouncing that people sling around here without any sense of history or context of any sort. His recommendations were never implemented, that essay sank into obscurity until I guess Hitler used it and now it's an excuse for everybody who doesn't know one thing about Luther except that essay to condemn him and everybody who has anything good to say about him.Luther was no anti-semite, he was no Hitler, he lost it in his recommendations although I think his reasons were good, yes, good, despite that, AND HE DID NOT ADVOCATE KILLING THEM AS YOU CLAIM, and if you all had any sense of perspective I wouldn't have to try to defend him. But here you come with the usual craziness I encounter here all the time: Do I worship Luther? What on earth allows you to say such a thing to anybody ever?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.