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Author | Topic: Does the bible condemn homosexuality? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Xzen Inactive Member |
Ummm actually I think you don't get it.
I said I was incorrect. From what the bible says in English and in Greek no where does it say that homosexuality is condemned. Is that clear enough for you? Neither the greek (which i assume is what you mean by origonal texts) or the English translation condemn homosexuality. They condemn unrighteousness. Is that clear enough for you friend?
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Xzen Inactive Member |
Gay marriage would logicaly not be supported due to the fact that homosexuality is (according to the bible) a result of ones unrighteousnes.
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Xzen Inactive Member |
For the most part I agree with you. Homosexuals are veary rarely able to stop being homosexual however their homosexual practices would have to stop. In Romans it says that they were given over to commiting these acts because they were unrighteous. So then if they were to become righteous by accepting Christ wouldn't they then stop those acts? Also how could a non-apostolic church marry a Homosexual couple when it is a display of unrighteousness?
P.S. I'm not trying to be insulting friend. I'm just trying to head in the right direction.
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Xzen Inactive Member |
I am in complete agreement with you.
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Xzen Inactive Member |
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Everyone is worthy of death you are correct. Even the best Christian is as worthy of death as a homosexual that isn't a Christian. The only difference is that the Christian will by God's grace be able to stop their "unseemly" works. A fornicator by God's grace would cease their fornication. God does not say that one sin is greater than another. People and Churches that catagorize sins as being greater or less are in err. I also ,for the most part, agree with you when you said: However the New Testament is up for grabs. It would seem equally, if not more, blasphemous to have interfaith marriages. I mean really, that would have to be the biggest slap in the face to God ever. Yet it is allowed without much yelling and screaming. While I don't agree that it's anymore a slap in the face than anything else we do that God doesn't want us too.
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Xzen Inactive Member |
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
If you have accepted Christ you recieve Grace. It would be impossible for me to show any congregation that has given up every sin however I could show you quite a few in which God has given victory over sin. For example homosexuals giving up their lifestyle and fornicators giving up their lifestyle. You say: But this also does not give nongay Xians the right to say laws must be passed against them in specific, or to pick on them as exceptionally wicked to God. That itself is judgement, hubris, and wickedness. I completly agree with that. Religeon has no place in the Government. I do believe that the Church has a grounds for not acknowledgeing or takeing part in gay marriage. You said: Who on earth had God's grace but the very few prophets? Some of the saints of Catholicism maybe? King David was a prophet and he was a sinner. However when he was punnished for his sin he put away all his wives, including the one that he had killed for. You say: If doing the deed he punishes, is not more offensive than the sin he uses as punishment, I stand a very confused person. You might have a point there but their all worthy of death and are so condemned anyway unless they repent. You say: BTW do you believe interfaith marriages should be banned by Xian churches and by US law (since that would just as well fit the "tradition" argument) just the same as homosexual ones? As far as the Church banning interfaith marriages I would have to say they should at least be consistent and ban them as well as homosexual marriage. The government, being that it SHOULD NOT be influenced by religeon, should alow gay marriage.
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Xzen Inactive Member |
You said:
I believe this is an equivocation on the term grace. Those that accept Christ notoriously fall down again. Only the very few get over whatever their "problems" are completely. I agree however their are a few that don't as you stated. You said: My point about congregations which have given up every sin, was to ask you to find me where the presence of God or the acceptance of Christ has actually ended sin completely. If you are telling me you know of some group where God has given VICTORY over sin, I would like to have some evidence. Sin will not be absent anywhere until the second comeing acording to the bible. You said: Your example of homosexuals and fornicators giving up their lifestyle sounds like hucksterish claims of Xianity's curative powers. So what if people gave up one or both of those sins? Are you saying they had no other sins to answer for? I'm not saying that at all. You said: Giving up one part of your lifestyle and declaring how wonderful you are now is simply ANOTHER SIN (pride and perhaps deceit). People gathering around to purge other people of the sins they themselves partcularly don't like, is once again... ANOTHER SIN (judgement, hubris, pride, and perhaps deceit and lying). I agree. Christians are supposed to be humble not declair how proud they are.(pride being the sin that got Lucifer cast from heaven) You said: Frankly, I can't wait to find the Xian denomination which has overcome the sins of judgement, hubris, pride, and deceit. IMO those would be much better to focus God's grace on, than mere sexual practices. No denomination can overcome sin. There are at least a few that concentrate on helping people get over not just sexual immorality but also judgement, hubris, pride, and deceit. You said: Even your example of King David supports my argument. There are very very very few humans who live up to any of the "idols" of the Bible. Your correct teir are veary few humans that can live up to the standard of Jesus Christ. A true Christian should make no one from the bible their idol but should follow Christs example. You said: To be consistent, don't you believe they should be more of concern to Xians than homosexual marriages? I think they should be equally concerning. You said: Also, don't you believe that Xians should be more concerned about athiests and nonXians than homosexual Xians? One is a bad habit like anyone else's, the other is the height of blasphemy. 1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. I think they are of equal concern.
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Xzen Inactive Member |
I was not trying to make homosexuality out to be worse than any other sin. I was only addressing the topic at hand. I apologise if it seemed like I was making homosexuality out to be worse than any other sin.
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