Importance of Original Sin

The people who say they have "original sin" born into them. If you take responsibility for your own actions, there is no need to even mention something that happened before you were born.We have also seen jaywill placing himself in Jesus' entourage instead of among "all nations" - i.e. he sets himself up as a witness for the prosecution instead of one of the accused. He claims the sheep and goats will be judged on how they treated him. I haven't seen jaywill acknowledge that he too will be judged.

Let's set the record straight. 1.) Jesus so-called "entourage" - If I was understood correctly, I taught that among all of Christ's believers after all raptures are completed, a remnant, a minority will be rewarded to accompany Him in the battle of Armegeddon. He will descend to the earth with this Bridal army accompanying Him.Did I say that I absolutely KNEW that I, jaywill, will be in that so rewarded group of overcomers ? No I did not. I would like to be among those overcomers so rewarded. But I have no guarantee at this moment that I would be so rewarded.If I am mistaken please produce the post in which I assured everyone reading that I personally knew I would be among this accompanying band of overcomers as Christ's so-called "entourage." 2.) The sheep people and the goat people are from the nations found alive on earthat the time of Christ's descent. I expect that all the Christians by that time would have been raptured to Christ and stand before Him to be judged. This judgment seat of Christ takes place in the air before Christ descends.I expect that I will have been raptured.
I do not expect all Christians to have been raptured at the same time.
But I expect all eventually will have BEEN raptured, so the crowds of
Matthew 25:31-46 will be the nations of non-Christians among Gentile nations at the time of Christ's descent.That is what I taught here.Of course I seek to be one of the overcomers. I do not know that I will be in that accompanying remnant with Jesus now, as it should be. Otherwise I would rest falsely on my laurels and not seek to keep pursuing the Lord Jesus.I have the assurance of eternal redemption and eternal life.
I do not have the assurance of reward.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Not true at all ! I do not expect to be among those Gentile nations as sheep and goats. But I did not exempt myself from being judged by Christ.You misrepresent my posts Ringo.I wrote about the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10; Romans 14:10). That is a judgment not to determine eternal redemption which has been decided in the affirmative to all who believe into Christ.That is the judgment for reward or discipline for their position in the millennial kingdom. I believe that I wrote more than once that every Christian is subject to that judgement.It is in fact THERE that Christ will decide things like who will be rewarded to accompany Him as His overcoming bridal army in the battle of Armageddon - (See Revelation 19).Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Before the evolutionary process started, was this standard of moral goodness and badness in existence for evolution to move kind of upwards towards ?Was there a moral law of goodness and badness before life's origin and evolution?Or is this moral goodness and badness just a chemical composition of molecules that somehow was selected for for species survival value in evolution's meandering unguided development ? Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

No, of course not. No, of course not and actually for the most part it doesn't exist today.That is the whole point of Genesis 2&3 as well as much of the Old and New Testaments.Morality is created by consensus, imagination, empathy and experience. Yup, pretty much.Haven't you ever read the Bible or The Eight Fold Path?It's not exactly unguided as long as you understand that it is not any entity that guides but it is a matter of keeping what works and discarding what does not work.

and look up how "spirit" is used in the old testament. set aside the references to god, and they're all things that are corporeal. and consider exodus 33 where moses see's yahweh backside, but not his face. or exodus 24, where moses, aaron, and seventy elders, you know, have a picnic with yahweh. he's pretty clear about wanting to hide himself for a few reasons, and i actually think those arguments are fairly good. but... someone does see him, and he is there in physical form.

because what you wrote is word salad.i called my response in another thread "breath and dust", because that is what the man is, in the bible. without the breath -- the spirit -- he is dust. a spiritually dead man is dust.

well, that's what i get for posting an actual scientific standpoint as an aside to a discussion on biblical exegesis. no, these are two separate points. the bible is not using evolutionary arguments anywhere. ever. they are incompatible ideas.the point was, originally, that abraham's standard of morality are not based entirely on yahweh, as they can be used to judge yahweh's actions. ie, there is no euthyphro dilemma in ancient judaism: things are right because they are right, not because god commands it, and god doesn't always command things that are right. no, because the question doesn't even make sense. if morality is the question of how you treat other living things, having no life is kind of like dividing by zero.the interesting thing is that even the law of moses is not a moral law defined from the beginnings of the universe (as much as you'd probably like to believe it is). it doesn't have much to do with morality (more like, civil society and religious laws that sometimes have moral justifications) and it was clearly (supposedly) given at a particular point in history.prior to that, what standards were there? what standard is abraham using in genesis 18 to judge yahweh? and if it's a corrupt human standard, why does yahweh agree? something like that. yes. but natural selection is a guiding process. in species that depend on social networks for survival, it's easy to see how not randomly killing members of the group is a beneficial trait, and how doing the opposite means you have no one to depend on for survival.

The point is Arac, is that there is no other way to describe something non-corporeal, besides Spirit, Ghost, wind breath, thats the pointWhat other word or words would you use to describe something that is non-physical in essence. There really are no other words besides those used Here if you will notice I have already agreed with you. I Do believe that God Can or does have shape or form in Spirit form, because this is the way he presented himself to Moses. If he does not, then he was pulling Hoax on MosesNow I dont know this absolutely, but only from clues given to us in scripture. there is however, no reason to believe it is physical as we are physical.There is however a further clue, given to us in the glorified body of Christ. While it was still physical in some respects, it differed grealy from normal human form and capabilites.Paul says the corruptible will put on incorruptible, the mortal (physical) will put on immortality.These are motified words for the already existing, Spirit, breath, wind, etc, that speak of something more than physicalEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Here with respect I see your argument on the run. being created in Gods image, I think you know but will not admit, is more than Shape, form or appearanceExistence in non-physical form goes on after death as is indicated by Samuels visit with Saul. Which is it more reasonable to assume, that Samuel had cease to exist, body and mind, then God brings him back into complete existence. This would be a cruel jokeOr that Samuel was at rest in a place of rest and at Gods request he was dispatched to speak to SaulI think the ladder is more reasonableBut I suppose to suit your argument, you will tell us, this is not an actual story, it did not really happen, or perhaps God, the writer or someone else embellished these names to prove a pointIll wait to seeBeign created in Gods image is much more than some limited mortality, according to the Old and New Testaments. its better to let the totality of scripture give us the picture, than to cherry pick what we want and mix it with our philosophies and preconcieved ideasDawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.Edited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

Talk about your word salad. Interestingly enough nearly none of this is what the entirity of scripture teaches us about God, Law, or moralityWhat standards were there, before that time?Romans 2:14-15"For when the Gentiles which have not the Law,do by nature the things contained in the Law, these having not the Law, are a law unto themself, they show the Work of the Law written in thier Hearts, there conscience also bearing witness and thier thoughs the meanwhile, accusing or excusing one another"The Law of the heart written in thier Hearts, Arac. Its called being created in the image of God.Dawn BertotEdited by Dawn Bertot, : No reason given.

So you will be judged. On what principles will you be judged? How does your judgement differ from that of the sheep and the goats?

Pardon me if your convoluted logic is hard to follow.

These Principles

As a moderator you of all people should understand we do not argue via link in this forum.Tha would be #5 of the forum rules.

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5. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

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As I, and probably others, do not click on links, there is no way for me to know the argument you are trying to present unless you actually present it.If I were still allowed to I would jeer your post. You would then think I was attacking your personally. I am not jeering you, I am jeering your inability to support your own arguments.