YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, adonai, lord, elohim, god, allah, Allah thread.

Well then, what is the name of the Muslim god? Is it Jehovah, same as the Jew/Christain or what is it. You tell me.

Muslims don't use the name of God - much like Jews, who are very circumspect in using it. And since Muslism accept the Torah as coming from God (albeit having been corrupted to some extent) I see no reason why they should not accept YHWH as the name of Allah.

I can confirm your assertion, that the word "Allah" does not refer to a specific name, but it means "God". About YHWH being the name of God, I don't see a Qur'anic basis for that position; but, I suspect that YHWH is also not a specific name, but just a phrase meaning "He Is". Check my earlier post.Or I can reverse this question to Buzsaw: On what basis do you claim that the Jew/Christian God's name is Jehovah/Yahwe/YHWH? Cite and original text please. Maybe there's a problem in your translated version.

YHVH is specifically the god that appeared to Moses, informed Moses of this specific Name, and thereafter is responsible for the Exodus of the Israelites from Lower Egypt under the leadership of Moses. (See Exodus)The phrase "I Am That I Am" has been interpreted other ways including, but not necessarily limited to, "I am that which is, has been, and is becoming" and other similar, all encompasing titles."Jehovah" is not the "god of the Israelites" and is not the god known as YHVH. Some eggheaded cultists decided to shuffle the vowels from Adonai (The Lord) inbetween the consonants of YHVH in order to render a name they could pronounce as "YaHoVaH." This amounts to about the same thing as if I were to insert the vowels from "Yeshua" (the approximate Hebrew for "Jesus")inbetween the Greek letters Chi and Rho (historically used as a cryptogram for Jesus)and come up with Khe-Rhu'a, and then insist that my invented misnomer is the legitimate name of the embodied one/third of the Trinity.

1. On the basis that this name is unique to the god/elohim/allah of the Bible. It is not claimed or ever used in reference for any god but the god of the Bible.2. On the other hand, the words lord/adonai can not only refer to any god, but to any master, either human or deity. Also the word god/elohim/allah is and can be attributed to any of the thousands of gods people worship.3. The word is used in most of the books of the OT in such a manner as to indicate it is his proper name and exclusively his.3. In order to become a Muslim it is necessary to declare that Allah, (not Jehovah) is god and that Muhammed is his his prophet.3. Most of the writers of the OT had no problem with using the name YHWH/Yaweh/Jehovah in the text so as for it to be read and spoken.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-10-2003]

This makes no sense atol, Abshalom. Is this some far fetched idea of yours or did you dig it up some place?? Please document your source. All Hebrew words are consanents and the phonic sound of the combination of the consonents is what determines the vowels when translating. The name is widely used throughout most of the OT far more extensively in such a manner as to depict it's proper name status in the most reliable manuscripts. For you to use this rediculous argument, the Greek would have to be a consonent only language as is the Hebrew, but that's not so. You're making no sense, whatsoever.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-10-2003]

Hi buzsaw,Abshalom is correct about the vowel indicators being transposed from the term "adonai", however, it was not originated by a cult, eggheaded or otherwise. יהוה is the tetragrammaton indicating the covenant Name of God. At some point in the history of the Jewish people it began to be regarded as too sacred to be pronounced. Thus, pious readers would pronounce "adonai" whenever יהוה appeared in the text.When the Masoretic scholars added the diacritical vowel pointing to the consonantal text of the Hebrew scriptures, they inserted the vowel points of אֲדֹנָי (adonai) into יהוה as a reminder that "adonai" should be pronounced aloud rather than "the Name".The grammatical rules governing the insertion of these vowels into יהוה required the compound sheva ( ֲ ) to be modified to simple sheva ( ְ ) under the non-gutteral yod ( י ). This resulted in the form יְהֹוָה which was always pronounced "adonai".Had the pointing of יהוה followed the consonantal indications instead of adopting the points of "adonai" it would, most likely, have been pointed as יַהְוֶה and, as such, pronounced as "Yahveh" or "Yahweh".The misguided process of pronouncing the Name itself with the interspersed vowel points adopted from "adonai" began around the time of the Protestant reformation. This coupled with the fact that the "Y" sound was written as "J" in the German language (as well as the late addition of "J" to the English language) resulted in the modern mis-pronunciation of יְהֹוָה as "Jehovah".Namaste'Amlodhi[This message has been edited by Amlodhi, 12-11-2003][This message has been edited by Amlodhi, 12-11-2003]

OK, let's try to get the facts straight, then.Give me an example of a biblical verse with the word YHWH, in its original text (in Hebrew/Aramaic/whatever language it was written originally). And give me another verse with the word 'elohim'. Let's see if YHWH is actually a specific name.

So I guess that English speaking Christians don't worship YHWH either.They all talk about "God" and "Jesus".Well if the Arabic word for "God" can't refer to the God who spoke to Moses then the English word "God" can't either.

Amlodhi:Thank you so much for the scholarly and correct information regarding the incorrect usage and pronounciation of the Tetragrammaton as "Jehovah." My short, not so scholarly, and rather snide rendition is due to the fact that I am so fed up with British Israelists, Evangelical Messianics, and Jews for Jesus with all their interpretive balogna regarding their "inheritance."But anyway, I still consider even the correct information you give regarding the interspersal of diacritical vowel points into the consonants comprising the Tetragrammaton to be a vain attempt by apologists whether Jewish or Christians to vulgarize the Name.Were I devout in either religion I would simply say "HaShem" or "The Name" and leave the Tetragrammaton as is and unadulterated by the hand of man.(Buzsaw read that last sentence twice)Ashalom Aleikem, Amlodhi[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 12-11-2003]

Andya Primanda:I may be mistaken as I often am, but I believe the first chapter and verse of Torah in which the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) is revealed to man is said to be Exodus, Chapter 6, Verse 2, which reads something like, "God spoke to Moshe, he said to him: 'I am YHVH.'" Verse 3 reads something along the lines of, "I was seen by Avraham, by Yitzhak, and by Yaakov as God Shaddai (alternatively "God Almighty" or "El Shaddai").P.S. to Buzsaw: Do you have any idea how many names are given to "El" such as Adonia, El Shaddai, El Olom, El Khai, El Elyon, Elohim, Adon, Adonay Tzivaot, Tzur Yisrael, Melekh, etc., in the Bible alone, not to mention other names in other holy texts refering to the same monotheistic diety you so carelessly refer to as Jehovah?

1. That the superstitious idea emerged after the fact of the original texts the the name YHWH shouldn't be spoken does not make them right and deterioriates/liberalizes the purity and literacy of the original intent of the text.2. That the Y was later translated and spoken as J does not make it erroneous or miss-pronounced. Why? Because the official English language was changed across the board so as to make it the only correct way to pronounced it. Your missguided idea would require that every word in the English language in which the y was changed to j would be miss-pronounced or spelled. That makes no sense.

And if the mountains all tumble into the sea
Let it be
Let it be
'Cause I got my own life to live ... E-T-C ... E-T-C
(Jimi Hendrix)And, Buzsaw, it makes no difference when or why "J" was introduced to the "English" language, Jochim is still pronounced Yokheem, Jethro is still pronounced Yitro, Joseph is still pronounced Yosef, Jacob is still pronounced Yaakov, E-T-C ... E-T-CSo if six (6) turns out to be nine (9) I don't mind ... I don't mind[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 12-11-2003]

........And Abshalom, have you any idea how many times in the OT each of these names are used? The proper name of God/Elohim which is Jehovah is use around 6000 times. The descriptive name, El Shaddai, in comparison is used 41 times. Jehovah/YHWH is clearly, I say clearly, the proper name of the God of the Bible.

Pronounced by whom in English speaking nations?? Last I heard, the J is official proper letter used in the English language today.