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Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 193 of 710 (800250)
02-21-2017 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
02-21-2017 12:22 PM


Re: Solme examples of fake news against Trump
Faith, the link to the article in your post is broken. Would you mind fixing it?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 12:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 1:01 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 198 of 710 (800262)
02-21-2017 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
02-21-2017 12:22 PM


Re: Solme examples of fake news against Trump
nd that "immigrants day" recently itself, the whole thing, was exactly that sort of lie/fake news.
Not fake news. Was there an immigrants day protest? Yes. Were there both legal and illegal immigrants who took part in the protest? Yes. Is there a significant part of the native population who is against any immigration or who wants to expand the definition of illegal immigrant to include folks who can currently immigrate legally? Yes and that latter statement applies to both Trump and you with your Muslim spew.
So not fake news. This appears instead to be reporting on a subject you wish was either ignored or covered negatively. Real news for people who don't keep their heads in the sand.
After Trump’s electoral victory on November 8, rumors began circulating that multiple transgender teenagers had killed themselves in response to the election results.
The extent of this appears to be a single organizations Tweet followed by a cancellation of the tweet. How does that compare to five years of Trump lying about Obama's birth certificate with the press publishing all of it? Trump finally admitted that there was no substance to the whole charade during his current campaign.
quote:
During her confirmation hearing, education secretary nominee Betsy DeVos was asked whether schools should be able to have guns on their campuses. As NBC News reported, DeVos felt it was best left to locales and states to decide. She pointed out that one school in Wyoming had a fence around it to protect the students from wildlife. I would imagine, she said, that there’s probably a gun in the school to protect from potential grizzlies.
This was an utterly noncontroversial stance to take. DeVos was simply pointing out that different states and localities have different needs, and attempting to mandate a nationwide one-size-fits-all policy for every American school is imprudent.
Perhaps a little context is in order here. Yes DeVos was pressed to augment her answer that guns in schools was to be left up to the state. And rightly so. The questions were coming from the Senator from Connecticut who was rightly concerned about guns in schools. And Betsy's best answer was a flip remark about Grizzly bears? Not fake news.
DeVos does advocate for choice in schools. What she does not advocate for is that charter schools have any government over sight. As a result, she has built systems of schools that are performing worse than the schools she wants. Now you may consider the fact that she wants to use vouchers to give the public choice a position in favor of public education, but when the system gives students the choice of failing schools then one might rightly consider her support counter the very idea of a public education.
Not fake news.
quote:
following the Quebec City mosque massacre, the Daily Beast published a story that purported to identify the two shooters who had perpetrated the crime.
Uh, the most significant fake news about this massacre was right wing folks claiming that a Muslim man was responsible. I'm not going to excuse that.
quote:
n January 31, a Fox affiliate station out of Detroit reported that A local business owner who flew to Iraq to bring his mother back home to the US for medical treatment said she was blocked from returning home
Uh, Fox News? Yeah, they sometimes have fake news. Less often than InfoWars maybe, but fake news nonetheless. I won't defend them.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 12:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 223 of 710 (800289)
02-21-2017 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by New Cat's Eye
02-21-2017 1:40 PM


Re: Emails
Is there any responsibility on the news agency to present their stories in a way that doesn't spark false narratives? Or is that totally cool as long as the explicit statements aren't technically blatantly false or fake?
Help us out. What was the false narrative that the explicit statements were spun into? A news agency does not have much control over folks who are intent on spinning innocence into guilt, but may have some responsibility if they do some of the spinning.
So let's lay out this example and call out the actions or omissions of the news agency that led to promoting of spin.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2017 1:40 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2017 4:11 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 710 (800291)
02-21-2017 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by New Cat's Eye
02-21-2017 4:11 PM


Re: Emails
The story was: Some guy got charged with raping two women and did not spend one day in prison.
There is certainly not enough detail here to allow me to agree or disagree with you. There isn't even any way for me to compare what you read to anything Trump or anyone else is calling "fake news".
Isn't there some current example that we can all research?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-21-2017 4:11 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 710 (800292)
02-21-2017 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
02-21-2017 2:54 PM


Re: Emails
The emails are strange and that's what I'm asking.
What you said was that the emails are strange and that there was reason to believe that they were coded sexual language. Well that appears to be incorrect.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 02-21-2017 2:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 710 (800351)
02-22-2017 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by Faith
02-22-2017 1:20 PM


Re: One report on Sweden
Honesty. An honest assessment of the video shows its truthfulness over the statistics.
No, it does not. A video represents a tiny section of speakers talking about something and gives their impressions. Further, those speakers are selected by whoever is producing the video. Anyone can make a video.
Did you do any fact checking on what appears in the video? How would you do that checking? Is it just that you know the truth when it agrees with you?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:43 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 255 of 710 (800356)
02-22-2017 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by New Cat's Eye
02-22-2017 11:11 AM


Re: Emails
And if it's news sites, I go through their sources, and their sources sources, until I get to the bottom.
That sounds great in principle, but I doubt you can do that effectively.
I agree with you that there is a problem with main stream media. The problem I see is the drive for the sensational and entertaining in order to drive eyeballs to their advertising stream. Print media is of so little profitability that news papers are an after thought.
Like I said, the news today is just telling the public what their opinions should be. There's very little actual journalism.
Perhaps that is because facts should dictate your impression of what is correct. It may well be impossible to maintain the illusion that Trump's administration is a well oiled machine if we are actually seeing the results of its work.
Or maybe you just cannot separate news from editorials and other opinion pieces.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-22-2017 11:11 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 256 of 710 (800357)
02-22-2017 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Faith
02-22-2017 1:43 PM


Re: One report on Sweden
Well, there are lots of such videos, lots and lots of them.
There are lots of videos about the earth being flat, about the earth being the center of the solar system, about big foot being real, moon landings being fake, pope being the anti-christ etc. Those videos don't prove anything other than somebody went to a bunch of trouble.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:43 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 257 of 710 (800358)
02-22-2017 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Faith
02-22-2017 1:48 PM


Yet another Keeper...
Dr. J writes:
and how do you know that the observer is honest?
Faith writes:
It's obvious.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Faith, posted 02-22-2017 1:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 282 of 710 (800405)
02-23-2017 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Faith
02-23-2017 2:10 AM


Re: Just a couple more counter-fake news videos
Faith writes:
I don't think you know what propaganda is.
Do you have any argument at all other than "look at this video"?
You are not going to convince anyone this way. All you are doing is giving us insight into how your own thinking process works. You tried this same crap in the vaccine debate. In another discussion you tried to convince me that the Pope was the anti-Christ with a cartoon video.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 2:10 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 291 of 710 (800423)
02-23-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
02-23-2017 10:43 AM


I guess it's hopeless. Political correctness rules. Nobody here wants to believe the truth about what's going on in Europe. Deep grief.
Your problem is that you know the truth without needing any objective evidence. If somebody says it in a way you find convincing, you believe it. I won't speculate here on why that might be, but many people don't have your reasons to believe what you believe. Understandably they want evidence.
If that is the state of affairs that constitutes "PC" then you haven't described a problem at all. Evidence based reasoning is the rational way to behave.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 02-23-2017 10:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 292 of 710 (800424)
02-23-2017 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by New Cat's Eye
02-23-2017 10:18 AM


Re: Emails
For example, when I heard in the mainstream news that Trump passed an executive order to ban muslims I was shocked. So I went to the executive order, itself, and read it. It was temporary and didn't mention the word "muslim" once. "Muslim ban", pssh, what a load of bullshit.
You believe a Muslim ban must mention the word Muslim?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-23-2017 10:18 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 335 of 710 (800518)
02-24-2017 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Porosity
02-24-2017 3:04 PM


Re: Galloping disinformation as usual
This person is not stupid, intelligent people aren't immune to conspiracy theories and superstitious beliefs.
I'd take this a bit further. We're all susceptible to conspiracy theories, particularly those that play onto our deeply held beliefs, i.e. our world view. They only defense against such susceptibility is a rigorous method of questioning and evaluating evidence. If I were looking for a short name, I'd call it 'critical thinking'.
And critical thinking is only a partial defense against conspiracy thinking and superstition. But its about all we have.
Confirmation bias, or seeking out information that supports your previously established beliefs, isn’t just lazy, It’s dangerous, and can lead to real world consequences, like when an armed man entered a DC restaurant investigating pizzagate.
Or like when the president puts the intelligence agencies to the task of finding a case to invade Iraq, or finding evidence that folks from those seven Muslim countries are terrorist threat only after getting slapped down in court.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Porosity, posted 02-24-2017 3:04 PM Porosity has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 336 of 710 (800520)
02-24-2017 4:29 PM


Administration dis-invites New York Times and CNN from press briefing:
White House blocks CNN, other news organizations from press briefing
quote:
The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Politico and BuzzFeed were also excluded from the meeting, which is known as a gaggle and is less formal than the televised Q-and-A session in the White House briefing room. The gaggle was held by White House press secretary Sean Spicer.
In a brief statement defending the move, administration spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said the White House "had the pool there so everyone would be represented and get an update from us today."
The pool usually includes a representative from one television network and one print outlet. In this case, four of the five major television networks -- NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox News -- were invited and attended the meeting, while only CNN was blocked.
Trump speaking to the Conservative Political Action Committee:
quote:
"They are the enemy of the people because they have no sources," Trump said. "They just make them up when there are none."
He also said reporters "shouldn't be allowed" to use unnamed sources.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by jar, posted 02-24-2017 5:19 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 501 of 710 (801012)
03-02-2017 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Faith
03-02-2017 1:55 PM


Re: deportations
Faith writes:
But all I said was that I wasn't aware of such orders and that left Obams as the source.
No, your lack of awareness does not leave Obama as the source. Isn't it quite obvious that your own ignorance has no effect on reality?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Faith, posted 03-02-2017 1:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 03-02-2017 2:06 PM NoNukes has replied

  
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