Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 123 (8733 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 02-22-2017 4:58 PM
451 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: timtak
Upcoming Birthdays: CosmicChimp
Post Volume:
Total: 799,182 Year: 3,788/21,208 Month: 2,183/1,605 Week: 383/376 Day: 72/101 Hour: 4/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456
...
18NextFF
Author Topic:   Fake polls, fake news
Faith
Member
Posts: 23397
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1 of 270 (799879)
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


ABE: Added a bunch of stuff. Sorry. I see this got answered while I was working on that.

======================================
From NoNukes on the Presidency thread:

Despite the fact that Trump's approval ratings are in the toilet. Every poll I have seen suggests that 90% of Trump voters feel the opposite of the way that I and most posters here feel about Trump's performance to date.

That ratings are in the toilet is a lie. Fake news, fake polls, just as they did during the election campaigns, which is why it was such a shock to the left that Hillary lost. They are continuing with the same old game to try to make it look like Trump has lost favor. Twitter has been manipulated too so that only the negative responses to his tweets show up. You guys have no idea just how sneaky rotten your team is.

Oh and those rowdy Townhall meetings? Planted by... OBAMA. Yep, he's not leaving Washington, he's planning to undermine Trump with everything Soros will fund him to do.

The rest is true. Trump voters DO feel the opposite of you and just about everyone else here.

abe: While I'm at it I might as well respond to this one (#404) from Phat on that thread as well:

Washington Post writes:
Trump attacked the news media again, railing that “the fake news media is going crazy with their conspiracy theories and blind hatred.”

What he said is very true. And of course they have to complain as if it weren't true.

He also blasted the intelligence services, claiming that they are “illegally” giving information to the media, which, he opined, is “just like Russia.”

Sure, he's been getting lied about trying to somehow smear him with some kind of collusion with Russia. People are even saying he should be assassinated, implying he's a Russian spy? Is anyone here paying attention or do you just so dislike him -- thanks to the fake news -- that you'd be fine if they killed him? After setting him up with lies? Presidents do talk to heads of foreign states. Hillary talked secretly to Putin twice. Did you know that? Do you care? But if Trump as President does, in his rightful role of trying to keep things congenial with Russia, that is spun to make him a Russian sympathizer or collaborator? You don't even know you're being spun. They've even been trying to resurrect that dead "dossier." The more fake hints they can publicly float the more they make gullible people think there must be something to it when it's all nothing but propaganda.

This has become a pattern, in which Trump deals with setbacks by lashing out at other institutions, including ones that can function as a check on his power.

The "setbacks" are fake news. "Lashing out?" Note the language the fake news people like to use. No, he is rightly ANSWERING them in an effort to keep them from gelling in the public mind. The court action against his immigration ban was NOT a legitimate check on his power. It may need some adjusting, but I'm not even totally sure about that; in fact he was completely within the legitimate power of the Presdency and the court was acting illegitimately. The check is needed on THEIR power.

I'm trying here to unspin the spin, but I know I'm up against a wall of brainwashing.

When the courts blocked his immigration ban, he blasted both the courts and the news media for making us less safe,

HE WAS RIGHT to do that. They were in the wrong.

in what seemed to be designed to lay the groundwork to blame them for a future terrorist attack, a move that even some Republicans criticized for its authoritarian tendencies. This appeared to be a test run of sorts, in which Trump was experimenting with how far he could go in delegitimizing the institutions that might act as a check on his power later.

What a mess of insinuating gobbledygook. He STRAIGHTFORWARDLY and RIGHTLY objected that the court's action could allow a terrorist attack, and they WOULD be responsible for that.

How authoritarian is Donald Trump?

Nowhere near the tyranny of the Left, and in that case it should be called totalitarian. Trump really truly does want people to have liberty, freedom; the Left wants us all to dance to their tune, toe their line ... or else.

How far will he go before his own party attempts to check him?

He hasn't done one thing that SHOULD be checked. But his "party" has a lot of people trying to sabotage him so of course they are doing whatever they can to check his perfectly legitimate moves. His support is from the people, not the party.

Is he a dangerous leader for America at this time in history?

He's the best thing that has happened to America in a long long time. He's got quirks and makes mistakes, but his heart is in the right place, he really wants to serve America as a good President, good. Good. I don't think anybody knows what the word "good" means any more. Prosperity, security, freedom. Does anybody know what those things mean any more?

When will the angry people who elected him get a clue that it is them and not others who are the problem?

I'm not angry. Maybe I should be. Some are angry against the sheer evil we are having to deal with, that you just don't get, Phat. Or most others here. I'm not angry, I just cry a lot these days.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by RAZD, posted 02-17-2017 9:18 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 3 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 9:26 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 4 by jar, posted 02-17-2017 9:42 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 10:07 AM Faith has responded
 Message 10 by jar, posted 02-17-2017 10:38 AM Faith has responded
 Message 36 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-17-2017 8:44 PM Faith has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18138
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 2 of 270 (799880)
02-17-2017 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


That ratings are in the toilet is a lie. Fake news, fake polls, just as they did during the election campaigns, which is why it was such a shock to the left that Hillary lost. They are continuing with the same old game to try to make it look like Trump has lost favor. Twitter has been manipulated too so that only the negative responses to his tweets show up. You guys have no idea just how sneaky rotten your team is.

Agreed Rasmussen polls are entirely untrustworthy. So biased. Sad.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9192
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 3 of 270 (799881)
02-17-2017 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


The rest is true. Trump voters DO feel the opposite of you and just about everyone else here.

Did you see the press conference yesterday? What did you think of it?

Did Trump actually have the greatest electoral college margin since Ronald Reagan? Or is there some poll somewhere that shows Trump was right about that?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28156
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 4 of 270 (799882)
02-17-2017 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


Faith writes:

Trump voters DO feel the opposite of you and just about everyone else here.

How do you reconcile the fact that Donald Trump cannot seem to keep from lying about everything and that he lies so piss poorly that even an eight year old should be able to catch his lies?

If he can only lie to the Fellow Travelers how can he be effective dealing with real leaders of real nations? Is there any reason any foreign government should ever trust anything the man or his administration says?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23397
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 5 of 270 (799883)
02-17-2017 9:58 AM


I should have realized this was going to get pounced on before I got the whole thing written. Anyway I added more to the OP while answers were accumulating. Sorry about that.

==================================
Rasmussen seems to get it right where the others get it wrong.

I only saw parts of the press conference. I keep meaning to try to watch the whole thing. First impression is he's trying to deal with a crowd of people who treat him with disrespect, work with every breath to undermine anything he says, and he does pretty well under such circumstances. They never treated Obama that way you know, nowhere near it.

I don't know how he got the electoral college number wrong. Maybe he meant his number was better than Republicans since Reagan. I don't know. Maybe we'll find out. I still believe there was massive voter fraud myself, there's a ton of very suggestive facts in that direction; I hope eventually somebody will demonstrate it beyond a doubt.

No lies that I know of.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 10:24 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15403
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 6 of 270 (799885)
02-17-2017 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


Faith writes:

That ratings are in the toilet is a lie.

Your NoNukes quote from his Message 409 was only referring to the Trump approval ratings of 45%. I agree with you that that doesn't qualify as being "in the toilet", but it *is* the lowest of any modern president in the first month of his term.

Fake news, fake polls,...

Like your man Trump, you seem to believe that you're just saying so makes it true, or maybe that just you're saying so is sufficient and that what you say doesn't have to have any factual support.

...which is why it was such a shock to the left that Hillary lost.

But the polls were correct that Hillary had a considerable lead. In the end it turned out to be about 3 million votes. It still feels surprising that the popular vote broke out into the electoral college in a way that gave Trump a narrow victory in three key states.

They are continuing with the same old game to try to make it look like Trump has lost favor.

Trump hasn't lost favor among his base, and the media reports this continually, including after yesterday's press conference. Did that press conference seem normal to you? Have you ever seen a president act like Trump did yesterday? Wouldn't you expect people in general to respond negatively to this president's inability to begin hitting anything like a presidential stride.

Twitter has been manipulated too so that only the negative responses to his tweets show up.

Now there's a new one. And you know this how?

You guys have no idea just how sneaky rotten your team is.

And apparently we're technological wizards, too. We couldn't keep Russian hackers out of Democratic emails, but we can hack the presidential Twitter account. Right.

The rest is true. Trump voters DO feel the opposite of you and just about everyone else here.

Well, you're here. Don't just tell us how you feel, tell us the facts behind how you feel. True ones, not the ones Trump likes to make up.

AbE: Faith's OP was very short, just a few sentences, when I originally replied to it. She sure knows how to sow confusion.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : AbE.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 10:26 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:35 AM Percy has responded
 Message 14 by ooh-child, posted 02-17-2017 12:19 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9192
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 7 of 270 (799887)
02-17-2017 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:58 AM


I don't know how he got the electoral college number wrong. Maybe he meant his number was better than Republicans since Reagan.

If he meant that, he'd still be wrong. George HW Bush got 426 electoral votes. The only president since Reagen that Trump surpassed was George W Bush.

I don't know. Maybe we'll find out.

Trump was confronted with the real numbers and simply said that he "heard it somewhere." There is nothing to find out. I suppose if you believe something untrue, you are not lying when you repeat it.

I still believe there was massive voter fraud myself, there's a ton of very suggestive facts in that direction; I hope eventually somebody will demonstrate it beyond a doubt.

Yeah, I know you believe that. I was hoping for explanations that don't begin and end with baseless conspiracy theories.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:58 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9192
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 8 of 270 (799888)
02-17-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
02-17-2017 10:07 AM


Your NoNukes quote from his Message 409 was only referring to the Trump approval ratings of 45%. I agree with you that that doesn't qualify as being "in the toilet", but it *is* the lowest of any modern president in the first month of his term.

Actually, I only quoted Republican approval numbers from an opinion piece. Trump's actual approval ratings are 40% with a 55% disapproval rating. If that does not constitute toilet, it is because his ratings have never been in the celebration range with which most other presidents start their terms.

Edited by NoNukes, : Toilet is the right word.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 10:07 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 23397
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 9 of 270 (799889)
02-17-2017 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
02-17-2017 10:07 AM


Your NoNukes quote from his Message 409 was only referring to the Trump approval ratings of 45%. I agree with you that that doesn't qualify as being "in the toilet", but it *is* the lowest of any modern president in the first month

The 45% is the fake news. We on Trump's side knew it even if the rest of you bought it.

Trump hasn't lost favor among his base, and the media reports this continually, including after yesterday's press conference. Did that press conference seem normal to you? Have you ever seen a president act like Trump did yesterday? Wouldn't you expect people in general to respond negatively to this president's inability to begin hitting anything like a presidential stride.

What IS unprecedented is the media's attitude. Did you ever see any of them ask such disrespectful questions of Obama? Did they ever question his credibility when he lied about how people could keep their own doctors and wouldn't have to pay more with Obamacare? But they question Trump's credibility on everything. I think he's doing as well as anyone could with such a hostile media.

I know about Twitter from trustworthy sources. Also about the infiltration of the Townhall meetings. But in my opinion anyone who is half conscious ought to know such things are rigged because we know he's very popular.

You don't need to "hack" Twitter. The people who run Twitter only have to set the program to put the negative responses at the top. Google does the same kind of thing. It's not that hard to bury the views they dislike and bring their favored views to Page One.

Yes, I forget that there are people watching and waiting to pounce and went ahead and added a response to another post from the Presidency thread. Sorry about that. I can move that part to another post but that might just add to the confusion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 10:07 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 02-17-2017 11:22 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 17 by caffeine, posted 02-17-2017 1:41 PM Faith has responded
 Message 18 by NoNukes, posted 02-17-2017 1:44 PM Faith has responded
 Message 20 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 2:42 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28156
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 10 of 270 (799890)
02-17-2017 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
02-17-2017 9:11 AM


More fake news from Faith
Faith writes:

Planted by... OBAMA. Yep, he's not leaving Washington, he's planning to undermine Trump with everything Soros will fund him to do.

And the evidence to support that bit of fake news is...?

Faith writes:

People are even saying he should be assassinated, implying he's a Russian spy?

No one suggests assassinating a Russian Spy. It is sufficient to simply deport them or try them for treason if the really are a US Citizen. And in the case of il Donald, the next in line for the office is even less competent than the current bungler. Having this VP is certainly good protection from assassination.

But it is a fact that his well oiled machine seems incapable of actually doing anything despite having full control of both Houses of Congress.

That is really funny.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 9:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:45 AM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23397
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 270 (799891)
02-17-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
02-17-2017 10:38 AM


Re: jar's spin
But it is a fact that his well oiled machine seems incapable of actually doing anything despite having full control of both Houses of Congress.

He's got so many people sabotaging and undermining him, even within his own camp, it's amazing how much he actually HAS got done, a lot more than most Presidents this early in their Presidency.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jar, posted 02-17-2017 10:38 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 02-17-2017 10:56 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 34 by Theodoric, posted 02-17-2017 8:14 PM Faith has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 28156
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 12 of 270 (799892)
02-17-2017 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
02-17-2017 10:45 AM


Re: jar's spin
Faith writes:

He's got so many people sabotaging and undermining him, even within his own camp, it's amazing how much he actually HAS got done, a lot more than most Presidents this early in their Presidency.

And where is your evidence to support that little bit of fake news?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:45 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12711
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 13 of 270 (799895)
02-17-2017 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
02-17-2017 10:35 AM


Faith writes:

Did you ever see any of them ask such disrespectful questions of Obama?


Can you give us some examples?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 10:35 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ooh-child
Member
Posts: 180
Joined: 04-10-2009


Message 14 of 270 (799896)
02-17-2017 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
02-17-2017 10:07 AM


Questioning Faith
Faith's OP was very short, just a few sentences, when I originally replied to it. She sure knows how to sow confusion.

Percy, do you think Faith is for real? Sometimes I get the feeling she's just posting this political stuff for grins & giggles. This thread is so over-the-top conspiracy laden, and I just think she's playing a caricature of an alt-right Christian.

Maybe I'm wrong......


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-17-2017 10:07 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 02-17-2017 12:32 PM ooh-child has acknowledged this reply
 Message 22 by nwr, posted 02-17-2017 4:38 PM ooh-child has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23397
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 15 of 270 (799897)
02-17-2017 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ooh-child
02-17-2017 12:19 PM


Re: Questioning Faith
I have to guess that you and others here just about never bother to read or listen to the conservative media -- though I don't even know if it's right to call it "conservative" or "right." "Alt-right" doesn't describe what many of them think of themselves. They are conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals in their own opinion, unified by their general support of Trump's agenda. Most of it is opinion just as most here is opinion on the other side. Asking for evidence is often not relevant because the same event we all know about well enough attracts radically opposing views.

Do you check with
Drudge Report
Breitbart
Newsmax
World Net Daily
Infowars
Frontpage Mag

That's some on the internet. There's also conservative radio. Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Mark Levin, Laura Ingraham etc etc etc.

They aren't just echoes of each other either; you'll get a whole range of opinion from them.

Oh lots more. The stuff you all just dismiss, that gets called "fake news" by the REAL fake news.

There ARE conspiracies out there. Why is that so hard to accept? It's not that hard to organize a conspiracy if you have a mind to and a source of funding, and there are plenty who have both.

Who are you listening to?

Here's an article in the New York Post about Obama's organized opposition to Trump, from a "bunker" not far from the White House. Not a conspiracy?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by ooh-child, posted 02-17-2017 12:19 PM ooh-child has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Diomedes, posted 02-17-2017 1:24 PM Faith has responded

    
1
23456
...
18NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017