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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fake polls, fake news | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Faith, the link to the article in your post is broken. Would you mind fixing it?
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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nd that "immigrants day" recently itself, the whole thing, was exactly that sort of lie/fake news. Not fake news. Was there an immigrants day protest? Yes. Were there both legal and illegal immigrants who took part in the protest? Yes. Is there a significant part of the native population who is against any immigration or who wants to expand the definition of illegal immigrant to include folks who can currently immigrate legally? Yes and that latter statement applies to both Trump and you with your Muslim spew. So not fake news. This appears instead to be reporting on a subject you wish was either ignored or covered negatively. Real news for people who don't keep their heads in the sand.
After Trump’s electoral victory on November 8, rumors began circulating that multiple transgender teenagers had killed themselves in response to the election results. The extent of this appears to be a single organizations Tweet followed by a cancellation of the tweet. How does that compare to five years of Trump lying about Obama's birth certificate with the press publishing all of it? Trump finally admitted that there was no substance to the whole charade during his current campaign.
quote: Perhaps a little context is in order here. Yes DeVos was pressed to augment her answer that guns in schools was to be left up to the state. And rightly so. The questions were coming from the Senator from Connecticut who was rightly concerned about guns in schools. And Betsy's best answer was a flip remark about Grizzly bears? Not fake news. DeVos does advocate for choice in schools. What she does not advocate for is that charter schools have any government over sight. As a result, she has built systems of schools that are performing worse than the schools she wants. Now you may consider the fact that she wants to use vouchers to give the public choice a position in favor of public education, but when the system gives students the choice of failing schools then one might rightly consider her support counter the very idea of a public education. Not fake news.
quote: Uh, the most significant fake news about this massacre was right wing folks claiming that a Muslim man was responsible. I'm not going to excuse that.
quote: Uh, Fox News? Yeah, they sometimes have fake news. Less often than InfoWars maybe, but fake news nonetheless. I won't defend them. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Is there any responsibility on the news agency to present their stories in a way that doesn't spark false narratives? Or is that totally cool as long as the explicit statements aren't technically blatantly false or fake? Help us out. What was the false narrative that the explicit statements were spun into? A news agency does not have much control over folks who are intent on spinning innocence into guilt, but may have some responsibility if they do some of the spinning. So let's lay out this example and call out the actions or omissions of the news agency that led to promoting of spin. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The story was: Some guy got charged with raping two women and did not spend one day in prison. There is certainly not enough detail here to allow me to agree or disagree with you. There isn't even any way for me to compare what you read to anything Trump or anyone else is calling "fake news". Isn't there some current example that we can all research? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The emails are strange and that's what I'm asking. What you said was that the emails are strange and that there was reason to believe that they were coded sexual language. Well that appears to be incorrect. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Honesty. An honest assessment of the video shows its truthfulness over the statistics. No, it does not. A video represents a tiny section of speakers talking about something and gives their impressions. Further, those speakers are selected by whoever is producing the video. Anyone can make a video. Did you do any fact checking on what appears in the video? How would you do that checking? Is it just that you know the truth when it agrees with you? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
And if it's news sites, I go through their sources, and their sources sources, until I get to the bottom. That sounds great in principle, but I doubt you can do that effectively. I agree with you that there is a problem with main stream media. The problem I see is the drive for the sensational and entertaining in order to drive eyeballs to their advertising stream. Print media is of so little profitability that news papers are an after thought.
Like I said, the news today is just telling the public what their opinions should be. There's very little actual journalism. Perhaps that is because facts should dictate your impression of what is correct. It may well be impossible to maintain the illusion that Trump's administration is a well oiled machine if we are actually seeing the results of its work. Or maybe you just cannot separate news from editorials and other opinion pieces. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Well, there are lots of such videos, lots and lots of them. There are lots of videos about the earth being flat, about the earth being the center of the solar system, about big foot being real, moon landings being fake, pope being the anti-christ etc. Those videos don't prove anything other than somebody went to a bunch of trouble. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Dr. J writes: and how do you know that the observer is honest? Faith writes: It's obvious. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Faith writes: I don't think you know what propaganda is. Do you have any argument at all other than "look at this video"? You are not going to convince anyone this way. All you are doing is giving us insight into how your own thinking process works. You tried this same crap in the vaccine debate. In another discussion you tried to convince me that the Pope was the anti-Christ with a cartoon video. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I guess it's hopeless. Political correctness rules. Nobody here wants to believe the truth about what's going on in Europe. Deep grief. Your problem is that you know the truth without needing any objective evidence. If somebody says it in a way you find convincing, you believe it. I won't speculate here on why that might be, but many people don't have your reasons to believe what you believe. Understandably they want evidence. If that is the state of affairs that constitutes "PC" then you haven't described a problem at all. Evidence based reasoning is the rational way to behave. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
For example, when I heard in the mainstream news that Trump passed an executive order to ban muslims I was shocked. So I went to the executive order, itself, and read it. It was temporary and didn't mention the word "muslim" once. "Muslim ban", pssh, what a load of bullshit. You believe a Muslim ban must mention the word Muslim? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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This person is not stupid, intelligent people aren't immune to conspiracy theories and superstitious beliefs. I'd take this a bit further. We're all susceptible to conspiracy theories, particularly those that play onto our deeply held beliefs, i.e. our world view. They only defense against such susceptibility is a rigorous method of questioning and evaluating evidence. If I were looking for a short name, I'd call it 'critical thinking'. And critical thinking is only a partial defense against conspiracy thinking and superstition. But its about all we have.
Confirmation bias, or seeking out information that supports your previously established beliefs, isn’t just lazy, It’s dangerous, and can lead to real world consequences, like when an armed man entered a DC restaurant investigating pizzagate. Or like when the president puts the intelligence agencies to the task of finding a case to invade Iraq, or finding evidence that folks from those seven Muslim countries are terrorist threat only after getting slapped down in court. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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White House blocks CNN, other news organizations from press briefing
quote: Trump speaking to the Conservative Political Action Committee:
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Faith writes: But all I said was that I wasn't aware of such orders and that left Obams as the source. No, your lack of awareness does not leave Obama as the source. Isn't it quite obvious that your own ignorance has no effect on reality? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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