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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
It's about the other man's property. It's like using his lawnmower without permission. ... the fact that men could also commit adultery means it wasn't just about men's property. And in any case, the main concern was that the other man shouldn't leave any of his children behind for you to feed and to claim your property as inheritance.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jesus explains adultery as lust in the heart, which applies to both men and women and doesn't seem at all related to property.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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He got the organ wrong.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
As I said, it's closely related to coveting, which is about property. As Jesus pointed out, it isn't an action, it's a thought or feeling, like coveting. Adultery is a more specific version of coveting. Jesus explains adultery as lust in the heart, which applies to both men and women and doesn't seem at all related to property.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Of course you have it wrong. Matthew 5:28
But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Not only does it seem to be aimed at men, it’s about committing a sin in the heart - not redefining the sin. And indeed, it is much like equating coveting to theft in the heart.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
He wasn't redefining the sin, He was explaining that we are culpable for our inner thoughts and desires and not just for our outward actions.
Women have always had to read ourselves into biblical admonitions to men where apoplicable and we're certainly included in this one and all the Ten Commandments. In fact the duo of Adam and Eve is called Adam in Genesis. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
There is a biblical law against dressing as the opposite sex. There are biblical laws against a lot of stuff, but in the past, when confronted with the facts that Christians single out homosexuality to get all huffy about despite the fact that other sins that are labeled as abominations are ignored, you've tried to make the point that homosexuality was some special abomination. Your ability to extend that to men wearing woman's clothing exposes the hypocrisy of that entire line of argument, as if we could not already see the inconsistency in it. Unless the locals are absolute morons, they will avoid the excesses that caused their last ruling to be overturned by the Supreme Court. Apparently this fool is giving them plenty of ammunition. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT
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PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Thanks for admitting that you were wrong. Although I have to say that the idea is pretty strange. Our desires are not within our control, so we cannot we be responsible for them. And if we are not responsible for them how can we be culpable?
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
You have to read a lot of stuff into the Bible when it isn't there. Women have always had to read ourselves into biblical admonitions to men....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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jar Member (Idle past 423 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
ringo writes: You have to read a lot of stuff into the Bible when it isn't there. That's called apologetics and study Bibles. Good money in them thar quote mines.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: Explain what on earth you mean by this. If you can't explain a thing (I suspect this is just some sound bite from you based on some European Roman Christian claim), then try to apply it in some way. What would the cows in Hinduism have to do with Israelite food taboos? (I kept this short and the questions are very plain and easy to undertsnad)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Your mention of Hinduism's sacred cow is utterly incomprehensible in this context.
The food laws of ancient Israel had various purposes but keeping the nation separate from the heathen nations was a big part of them:
Pork for instance: The whole world in Moses’ time was idolatrous, with each nation believing in many deities. The forbidding of certain foods such as eating pork clearly distinguished between what would later be termed Jew and Gentile. The dietary restrictions further indicated that Israel was a separate nation, a chosen people, and this helped the Israelites to break free from idolatrya sin they struggled with (see Exodus 32).
Under the Old Testament Law, even touching the meat of swine made one ritually unclean (Deuteronomy 14:8). This detail further insulated the Israelites from pagan practices. The Canaanites kept herds of swine and sacrificed them to idols. The connection between swine and pagan worship became so strong that the prophet Isaiah equated the sacrificial offering of pig’s blood with murderboth are called abominations (Isaiah 66:3).
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2424 Joined: Member Rating: 1.2 |
quote: I will quote from Pere De Vaux later, and he will tell us the sources of Canaanite religion. This is odd considering that bulls were about the favorite thing to worship and sacrifice. Baal and El were bulls. (This is just the start of oddities in your logic) (much more later) Here is a quote from the book, Canaanite Myths and Legends (Gibson), p. 84-87 The Ugaritic "Ba'al and Yam" text.
quote: Calf worship was popular in the whole region.
quote: Father De Vaux mentions three primary sources for Canaanite religion, but he leaves out Herodotus. More on that later.
quote: zevach means sacrifice (the "h" in the quote had a dot under it) 'olah means whole or burnt offering See 2 Kings 5 Naaman (the Syrian who lived right near the Canaanites) offered zevach ( or plural zevachim) and 'olah (plural 'oloth) to other Gods. Naaman then said he would do the same thing for Yahweh! The practices were the same. The sacrificial animals were about the same. Exodus mentions that ALL animals are to be sacrificed when the firstborn is conserned, so there were general sacrifices that included perhaps everything. There are animals that are to be used in SPECIFIC SACRIFICES mentioned in the Abraham story and throughout the Torah. Faith, you then said.
quote: This is a common fundamentalist lie. (Faith's source claim) Isaiah 66:3 in no way is referring to anyone but Israelites (unless there was syncretic practices which mixed religions but it WAS NOT CANAANITE PRACTICES) I can tell you that Herodotus wrote at just about the same time as 2 Isaiah and he very clearly said Canaanites did not eat pork ANYWHERE (unless my memory is failing me). Also, the Canaanite's didn't eat pork in the 2OO A.D. period ANYWHERE. We know that from Porphyry of Tyre. John Calvin himself made this comment, and the lie continues.
quote: There has never been a demonstration that Canaanites offered swine (though some Canaanite areas had swine). The Ugaritic Offering lists have lists of sacrificial animals, and swine/pigs are totally absent. Egyptians probably never sacrificed swine until the Greeks brought Baachus. Highly doubtful it was earlier as the pig was taboo.
quote: Though "normally" will always have lots of exceptions.
quote: The Israelites got everything from the Canaanites. The taboos against pork were common in the entire area and the sacrificial system was from the Canaanites. This quote of yours (the source) in in the tradition of never ending lies. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
But you provide no reason why these ancient practices are in any way relevant for us today.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You could have said all that in a few short sentences. Your way of interpreting things is bizarre and I often just skip over your posts because I can see there are too many things in them I'd have to correct. And I refuse to consider that my sources are liars. I'm sorry I answered you at all.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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