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Author Topic:   A Genesis Day and the Age of the Earth: what does the Bible say?
Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 3524 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 1 of 121 (479127)
08-24-2008 7:14 PM


How long is a "day" in the first chapter of Genesis? Does the Bible say how old the earth Is?
Point of View

When examining the Genesis account, it is helpful to keep in mind that it approaches matters from the standpoint of people on earth. So it describes events as they would have been seen by human observers had they been present. This can be noted from its treatment of events on the fourth Genesis "day." There the sun and moon are described as great luminaries in comparison to the stars. Yet many stars are far greater than our sun, and the moon is insignificant in comparison to them. But not to an earthly observer. So, as seen from the earth, the sun appears to be a ‘greater light that rules the day’ and the moon a ‘lesser light that dominates the night.’—Genesis 1:14-18.

What Does the Hebrew word for "Day" mean?

The Hebrew word yohm, translated "day," can mean different lengths of time. Among the meanings possible, William Wilson’s Old Testament Word Studies includes the following: "A day; it is frequently put for time in general, or for a long time; a whole period under consideration . . . Day is also put for a particular season or time when any extraordinary event happens."1 This last sentence appears to fit the creative "days," for certainly they were periods when extraordinary events were described as happening. It also allows for periods much longer than 24 hours.

That the Hebrew word for "day" is, as in English also, a flexible expression of unites of time is evident by the context of this expression in the Genesis account of creation. Therein is set forth a week of six creative days followed by a seventh day of rest. The week assigned for observance by the Jews under the Law covenant given them by God was a miniature copy of that creative week (Ex. 20:8-ll). That, in this instance, Moses did always mean that "day" equates twenty-four hours is the evident by: Genesis 1:5, where the daylight portion is called "day". Genesis 2:4, where all the creative epochs together are called "the day", Genesis 5:1,2, where it mentions "the day of God's creating Adam" and "the day of their being created" (though we learned by Genesis chapter 2 that the man and woman were not created in the same twenty-four hour day). Genesis 35:3, where Jacob refers to "the day of my distress"; Genesis 42:17,18, where Joseph puts his brothers into custody for three days (the days here are shorter than twenty-four hours); and in Psalms 90:2,4, also written by Moses, which says "For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night." Also when considering the topic of the length of the creative days we should consider: 1) What did each day begin with? 2) What did each day end with? and 3) What does the rest of the Bible have to say on this subject?

What each Day began and ended with

Each day began with a pronouncement or statement by God of his purpose for that particular day. Thus day 1 began at Genesis 1:3; day 1 at Genesis 1:6; day 3 at Genesis 1:9; day 4 at Genesis 1:14; day 5 at Genesis 1:20; day six at Genesis 1:24; and say seven at Genesis 2:3. What can we discern so far? The creative days were an account of the stages of God's actions toward the earth, which he had already created as he had also the remainder of the universe referred to in Genesis 1:1 as "the heavens", for this period of six "days" concerned the preparation of the planet existing in the state described in Genesis 1:2 as being "formless and waste" and there being darkness over the water covered surface, so it would be suitable for and filled with life. Thus even if we knew the length of the creative days the Bible does not indicate either the age of the earth or of the universe because to mention this again for emphasis, the "heavens and the earth" were created before the first day.

What does each creative day end with, and what else does the Bible say on this subject? In the historical account of Genesis at the end of each day we find the expression "and there came to the evening and there came to the morning," and then the day number following this statement. So then day 1 ended at Genesis 1:5, day 2 at Genesis 1:8, day 3 at Genesis 1:13, day 4 at Genesis 1:19, day 5 at Genesis 1:23, day 6 at Genesis 1:31, and day 7 did not have an end. Since it is a reasonable conclusion that he days of the creation account are of equal length, we can gain understanding of the issue of the length of the creative days by considering the length of the seventh day. At Hebrews 4:1-10, Paul quotes from Psalm 95:11 to demonstrate that the Israelites of Moses' day had the opportunity to enter into God's day of rest, but these failed to do so because of their lack of faith, and disobedience, and he then indicates that Christians of his time still had the opportunity to do so because that seventh day was still continuing. So the conclusion this leads to is that the seventh day is thousands of years long and thus the other days would be as long also.

A Reasonable View

In English usage we might say "In my father's day" or something similar such as "In George Washington's day." Other people will understand what we mean by such idioms containing the word "day" according to the context, whether we are speaking in a literal or figurative way, but prejudice cause individuals to insist on a literal interpretation of certain Bible texts, before they ascertain all the facts, or regardless of them. Some individuals consider it an evidence of their "faith" if they readily accept what others may find to be unreasonable without studying everything the Bible has to say on the subject. On the other hand individuals who are looking for something to criticize in the Bible also insist on a literal interpretation even though they would not do so if hearing something similar in everyday conversation.

A Look at the Text

Genesis

1 In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God’s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters.

3 And God proceeded to say: "Let light come to be." Then there came to be light. 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God brought about a division between the light and the darkness. 5 And God began calling the light Day, but the darkness he called Night. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a first day.

(The first day began with verse three for the reasons stated above.)

So no, the Bible doesn't say old the earth is, or how old the universe is either. All of "the Heavens and the Earth" were created before the first creative day, each of the creative days were thousands of years, or so, in duration, and the events during each of those days happened gradually, and not suddenly, as if, some would claim, "the waving of a magic wand".


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Adminnemooseus
Director
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Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 121 (479131)
08-24-2008 7:43 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Note: This topic is as per my suggestion here.

Adminnemooseus

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added "note".


    
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3423 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 3 of 121 (479162)
08-25-2008 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Bambootiger
08-24-2008 7:14 PM


The akjv says in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. I believe the other versions the translators added an s to heaven thus brought confusion to the chapter of genesis to make it seem to be about the heavens when if one reads it singularly its about creating heaven (firmament) and earth (dry land).

akjv genesis 1:1 its not about the heavens but the earth (dry land soil, granite foundations) and heaven (an atmosphere) of our world were created in the beginning of the creation week.

akjv Genesis 1:2 is saying our world was void and formless and that the earth was covered by the waters because darkness was upon the face of the deep. akjv genesis 1:2.

akjv genesis 1:9 confirms where it says he gathered the waters to one place and said let the dry land appear and it was so.

akjv Hebrews 1:10 too talks of God laying the foundations of the earth and that the heavens are also the work of his hands.

p.s. Kent Hovind in debate with Hugh Ross said that by the Word its either a 24 hour day or a 1,000 year day.

I personally believe in the 1,000 year day because akjv genesis 1:1 its about how God took our World in his hands and created the firmament that he called heaven not the heavens (akjv genesis 1:8) and the dry land (akjv genesis 1:10) that he called Earth. If you read the first chapter of genesis that is what happened in the beginning of the creation week (day 1 and 2) the creation of the atmosphere (heaven) and the creation of dry land (earth). It never was talking about the creation of the heavens nor when he created this world or that the name of this world is the Earth. He did not call the world earth but the dry land he called Earth. akjv genesis 1:10.

P.S. And the devil changed all them other bible versions to say heavens and the earth. Hebrews 1:10 the Word says the heavens too are the work of his hands but the foundations of the earth are about the raising up of the earth coming up out of the waters of the world void and formless referred to in genesis 1:2. The bible simply does not say how old our world is but the earth was created approximately 13,000-10,000 years ago if one day is as a thousand years akjv 2 peter 3:8.

The fossil record is no older than 10,000 years and evidence of accelerated decay in that according to creationists no primordial polonium exists given that radon gas is parent to polonium and the multitudes of polonium halo's proves it has to be primordial polonium. That not being present suggest accelerated decay in agreement with the sun being a torch for the first 3 creation 1,000 year days. It might be that the earth was radioactive and God used the suns gamma radiation to accelerate the decay rate removing all primordial polonium in creating the earth. This evidence (polonium halos) according to creationist (Gentry)appears to rule out an old earth. However does it rule out an old world since the creation of this world before the creation of the dry land. Since they are always dating the earth guess its a young earth, the world might be old but the earth is young.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.


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Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 3524 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 4 of 121 (479167)
08-25-2008 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by johnfolton
08-25-2008 3:03 AM


TEV says "the universe"
YOUNG says "In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth--"
NKJV,NASB,CEV,RSV,ROTHERHAM, ASV,DARBY. MJKV,LITV, all say "Heavens"
The Bible here was written in Hebrew, not English, and the Authorized King James Version was authorized by a man, King James, and not by God. However even in the AKJV the first day began with verse 3. Verse 1 says "In the beginning", not "on the first day:", so you are mistaken.
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gluadys
Member (Idle past 2794 days)
Posts: 57
From: Canada
Joined: 08-22-2008


Message 5 of 121 (479171)
08-25-2008 8:28 AM


I found this to be a helpful explanation of Genesis 1.

http://www.amazon.com/NIV-Application-Commentary-Genesis/dp/0310206170

There are certainly many possible ways to understand various phrases in the text. e.g. Does Gen. 1:1 refer to a creative event before Day 1 or is it an introductory summary of the chapter and refer to the whole seven days? It could be either and it is largely a matter of preference that determines one's stance.

It is true as the OP says that the text is written from an earth-bound view. We should remember that this includes the cosmological view of the writer.


    
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 2548 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 6 of 121 (479174)
08-25-2008 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by johnfolton
08-25-2008 3:03 AM


So How Old Does This Make the World in People Time?
a 1,000 year day.

And one year = 365.2422 days; ∴,

1000 (365.2422 day) day =

365,242.2 day2.

The bible simply does not say how old our world is but the earth was created approximately 13,000-10,000 years ago if one day is as a thousand years

13,000 • 365,242.2 day2 = …

How long is 4,748,148,600 day2?

Wouldn't it be neat-o if a day2 = one people-time year making the Earth 4.74 billion people-time years old. The high-end YEC Earth would be nearly 200 million years older then the Evo earth.

"I love it when a plan comes together?" — Col. John "Hannibal" Smith, Ret.

Edited by lyx2no, : Correct misquote.

Edited by lyx2no, : Fix heading.


Kindly

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞

When I was young I loved everything about cigarettes: the smell, the taste, the feel … everything. Now that I’m older I’ve had a change of heart. Want to see the scar?


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AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 708 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 7 of 121 (479179)
08-25-2008 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Bambootiger
08-24-2008 7:14 PM


Bambootiger writes:

So no, the Bible doesn't say old the earth is, or how old the universe is either. All of "the Heavens and the Earth" were created before the first creative day, each of the creative days were thousands of years, or so, in duration, and the events during each of those days happened gradually, and not suddenly, as if, some would claim, "the waving of a magic wand".

Welcome to the "pit". That word has a biblical meaning also. I'll pray for you as you are in the midst of a vast array of human influence in this forum.

I used to be an OEC (old earth creationist). In recent years after much Biblical study and scientific study, I have become a YEC (Young earth creationist with an understanding that the earth is 6-10000 years old or so. The amount doesn't really matter, I just believe it is relatively young in contrast to scientific understandings.

Now to your argument, I agree that the Bible doesn't address how old the earth is. All estimations by adding up dates and geneologies are potentially fraught with human error. So one must examine the logic used and base their understanding accordingly.

What made me a convert to YEC was a look at other verses in conjunction with the Genesis account. As you read the Genesis account, there is absolutely no indication of long periods of time, but there is substantial indication that a day is one revolution of the earth on its axis relative to a light source(roughly a 24 hr. day as we know it). By day 4 the sun and moon were established and they had a pupose....

Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

The sun and moon were to be used for timing events. The sun rise and sun set mark the timing of 24 hour days. They also mark the definition of "evening" and "morning" which are used for each creative day. There was also a different source of light on days 1,2,and 3. That light created a timing event of an "evening" and a "morning" just like days 4,5,6,and seven.

From just reading the Genesis acount, there is substantial argument for 24 hour days, but no argument for longer periods of time. The argument for longer periods of time does not come from scripture, but it comes from outside the Bible.

Now probably the greatest evidence of a 24 hour day comes from when God gave the ten commandments to Moses in Exodus 20. Now note that this God's words directly to Moses:

Exo 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

It appears to me that the Lord Himself thinks that all the things created in the Genesis account were created in six days and this day period is in relationship to the sabbath day which was certainly 24 hours. Again, there is no indication of long periods of time here, only an indication from the Lord Himself of just a 24 hour day.

I certainly understand why people try to reconcile the Bible with scientific data, beacuse I used to be one of them. Now I beleive that the reconciliation exists best by going to the source of all knowledge first. There are other cosmological theories other than the Big Bang theory. I lean towards Dr. Humphreys gravity well theory where time is relative and can be distorted and dialated by gravity. During creation week billions of years of light travel could have taken place in just 3-4 literal 24 hour days on this earth. That's physics. If you want information on this, I can provide it.

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.

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AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 708 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 8 of 121 (479181)
08-25-2008 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by johnfolton
08-25-2008 3:03 AM


johnfolton writes:

The bible simply does not say how old our world is but the earth was created approximately 13,000-10,000 years ago if one day is as a thousand years akjv 2 peter 3:8.

I know this is off the subject, but do you also believe that the 1000 years mentioned in Rev. 20 (the millenium) is just one day? That is according to 2 Peter 3:8.

Just curious, I won't argue your answer.


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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3423 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 9 of 121 (479187)
08-25-2008 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 10:33 AM


Yep, A lot of prophecy will be fullfilled in this "The day of the Lord."

http://www.gotquestions.org/day-of-the-Lord.html


This message is a reply to:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3423 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 10 of 121 (479194)
08-25-2008 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Bambootiger
08-25-2008 6:30 AM


God said he would preserve his Word for all generations all your other bible versions have been compromised by man.

I take genesis 1:1 to be about our world that he created the atmosphere(heaven) and he created the dry land (earth)given the entire chapter is about our world.

Man has called our World the EARTH but God in the book of genesis called only the dry land: EARTH. In describing our world the dry land existed under the waters of genesis 1:2 !!!!!!! akjv genesis 1:10 I mean with all the waters in the oceans akjv genesis 1:2 is about our world, before it had dry land or an atmosphere.

Its been said if you smoothed the earth so no depressions or mountains you would have approximately 1/2 mile of water covering our world which is basically what akjv genesis 1:2 is saying what our world void and formless looked like before the dry land came forth out of the waters akjv genesis 1:10, etc...

P.S. Some great Christians on this site use bible versions that I believe have been compromised but it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching the gospel to save them that believe.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Check your Bible and see if it is a counterfeit.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/counterfeit.html

A video explaining why your bible versions are not the HOLY BIBLE !!!!!!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=42385501735388990

NEW AGE BIBLE VERSIONS

The New Case Against the NIV, NASB, NKJV, NRSV, NAB, REB, RSV,
CEV, TEV, GNB, LIVING, PHILLIPS, NEW JERUSALEM, & NEW CENTURY

by G. A. Riplinger

http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html

Has Jesus Christ Come in the Flesh? Only the akjv got it right, etc...

http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/downloads/PDF/NABV/sample.PDF

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.

Edited by johnfolton, : No reason given.


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AlphaOmegakid
Member (Idle past 708 days)
Posts: 564
From: The city of God
Joined: 06-25-2008


Message 11 of 121 (479221)
08-25-2008 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by johnfolton
08-25-2008 10:56 AM


johnfolton writes:

Yep, A lot of prophecy will be fullfilled in this "The day of the Lord."

Interesting. I agree. However, you and I are in the great minority with this understanding.


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Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 3524 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 12 of 121 (479266)
08-25-2008 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by johnfolton
08-25-2008 11:30 AM


The best way to tell
John,
Even earlier, than the King James Version many English translations of the Bible had come into being. There were the works of Wycliffe, Tyndale and Coverdale. There was the Matthew’s Bible of 1537, the Great Bible of 1539, the Geneva Bible of 1560 and the Bishops’ Bible of 1568. First among the so-called "authorized versions"—those translations authorized by religious monarchs or religious groups for use in their religious congregations—was the Great Bible. The King James Version was not a translation from the original languages of the Bible, but instead a revision of the versions then in use. The instructions given by King James to the translators were: "The Bishops’ Bible to be followed, and altered as little as the Original will permit. And these translations to be used when they agree better with the text than the Bishops’ Bible—namely, Tyndale’s, Matthew’s, Coverdale’s, Whitchurch’s, Geneva."There are quite a few mistakes in the King James Version . One of these mistakes are the spurious words "Father, Son, and Holy Sprit" found at 1 John 5:7.It was not until the sixteenth century that these spurious words crept into a Greek manuscript. In 1516 Erasmus produced a Greek "New Testament" text. He brought out several editions, and the first two did not contain the spurious words at 1 John 5:7. However, the omission of this forged text was noted by Catholic authorities, particularly by J. L. Stunica, one of the editors of the Complutensian Polyglott, and through subsequent contriving Stunica prevailed upon Erasmus to insert it in a later edition, against the better judgment of Erasmus. This became what is called the "textus receptus", but not because it was received from God. The textus receptus was based on no manuscript older than the tenth century. William Tyndale used this Erasmus later edition to revise his English translation, and it is this Tyndale version that is the basis of the popular King James Version of 1611. The original King James Version had a "Preface of the Translators" which is not there today, and that would tell you a lot about why it was made. The King James Version you read today is not the same one as came out in 1611. For instance even by 1613 three hundred changes had been made, and more since then. The major changes were made in the eighteenth century. I doubt if you have one older than that.
A lot of much older manuscripts of both the original languages and very early manuscripts have been found since the time of the King James Version which allows us to have much more accurate translations today. One of these is the Vatican manuscript 1209 which dates from the fourth century. I do have a King James Version, but I have others as well, and I like to compare them. I can tell you that the mistakes in the King James Version are really obvious if you compare it with Hebrew and Greek Interlinear. Also you can use lexicons to look up the meaning of original language words, and then concordances are useful to see how those words are used by the Bile itself. The King James Version is very inconsistent in how it renders the same original language word in different places. One example of this is the "Tetragrammaton" (look up this word in a dictionary). It means "four letters" and it is God's personal name in the form of the four Hebrew consonants. That personal name was inspired by God in his word to be recorded 6,971 times in the original Hebrew but it is rendered as a name only four times in the King James Version; one of these is at Psalms 83:18. The same word also appears at Psalms 110:1 but there it appears as "LORD" in all capital letters. Look it up yourself and see the difference between the two occurrences of lord in that verse. That is one place where the King James Version is not consistent. The American Standard Version , which came out about 1913 renders the divine name throughout.
You are welcome to use whatever you want, but don't preach to me about it out of your ignorance. Use the tools and prove what is true for yourself instead of blindly following others.
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Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 3524 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 13 of 121 (479268)
08-25-2008 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 1:20 PM


The time of the end
I agree with you on that point AlphaOmegakid, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the original message.
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Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 3524 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 14 of 121 (479270)
08-25-2008 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 10:33 AM


I agree here
Yes John I do, but that does not mean it is the same length of day as mentioned in Genesis.
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Bambootiger
Junior Member (Idle past 3524 days)
Posts: 44
From: Denton, Texas, United States
Joined: 08-24-2008


Message 15 of 121 (479272)
08-25-2008 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AlphaOmegakid
08-25-2008 10:22 AM


It's used in various ways
AlphaOmegakid,
If you read through these first chapters of Genesis you will see that "day" is used in different ways. On the first day only the light portion is called "day" and yet at the end of the same day the entire evening to morning is called "day" and this is despite the fact that evening to morning is not 24 hours.Another example is Genesis 2:4 where it does not say "days" but refers to all 6 days as "day" singular.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-25-2008 10:22 AM AlphaOmegakid has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by AlphaOmegakid, posted 08-26-2008 10:30 AM Bambootiger has responded

    
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