Multiculturalism

Of course it isn't. It is the ideology that polities should be defined on terms of ethnic and cultural identity. The same ideology, I'm afraid, that has the better part of the third world in perpetual civil war. European settlers did not assimilate with cultures in the 'host land' because they killed half its inhabitants and subdued the rest.Where are modern immigrants failing to assimilate because they are killing off the citizens of the host states?There is simply no common thread.You're just trying to throw the topic off-track by asking irrelevant questions.

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Of course it isn't. It is the ideology that polities should be defined on terms of ethnic and cultural identity. The same ideology, I'm afraid, that has the better part of the third world in perpetual civil war.

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You seem to be saying that proper multiculturalism is the solution.

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European settlers did not assimilate with cultures in the 'host land' because they killed half its inhabitants and subdued the rest.

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I asked what they should have done. Do you approve of what they did ?

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Where are modern immigrants failing to assimilate because they are killing off the citizens of the host states?

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Are you suggesting that they should ? Because if you aren't then you are hardly interacting with my question.

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There is simply no common thread.

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Sure there is. How should incomers behave is the common thread. Should they be expected to fully assimilate with the cultures already present in the land or can they stop short of that ?

You are confused.It is no use discussing with someone who cannot separate the 15th-19th centuries from the 21st.

A formal nation state is a necessity for a political policy of multiculturalism.Nothing except for two cultures is necessary for multiculturalism as simply a thing.But we're not talking about multiculturalism as a thing, we're talking about it as a political policy.That's why the European settlers' relationships with the native americans are irrelevant. Sufficient for what?Political policy? No, that requires a nation state.ABE: I don't see the political policy of multiculturalism as being simply stopping short of full assimilation. Isn't it actually having policies that promote maintaining sub-cultures despite the host culture's effects of dwindling them?That is, full assimilation is not a dichotomy to multiculturalism.Edited by Cat Sci, : No reason given.

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You are confused.

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Says the guy who can't even understand the arguments he's trying to trash.

Such as? Are there bounty hunters who bring lapsed Amish people back to the farm and take their iphones away?

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Nothing except for two cultures is necessary for multiculturalism as simply a thing.

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But we're not talking about multiculturalism as a thing, we're talking about it as a political policy.

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Except you're missing the point. If multiculturalism is good then that is a reason for a policy of multiculturalism.

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Sufficient for what?

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Sufficient to raise the question of whether incomers should assimilate or not. Sufficient to provide some guidance to the correct policy in other situations.

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I don't see the political policy of multiculturalism as being simply stopping short of full assimilation. Isn't it actually having policies that promote maintaining sub-cultures despite the host culture's effects of dwindling them?

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Multiculturalism is not usually about fully supporting all aspects of the incomers cultures. It is more commonly about respecting different cultures and mitigating the tendency to push assimilation on to incomers. And I don't mean any intentional tendency, simply the expected outcome of not making allowances for different cultures.

Force was the word you used. I'll quote you:From Message 67Your word, not mine. Mr. armed overthrow of the government is the essence of democracy. Are you ever going to get around to citing some examples of multi-cultural policies that you want to change. Tell me a specific attitude, value, or ideal of a cultural group that is protected by policy and that you want to change. Is it really to much to ask for you mono maniacs to be specific?

Forcing participation is not the same as forcing assimilation.As for the rest, come back when you want honest discussion.

Here, from what I've read so far, is an overview of how the French did it:Laman tidak ditemukan - EUROSPHERESI haven't gotten through it yet, and I've got to go do some other stuff now, so I'm putting it here not just as a reply to you, but so I can find it later to finish reading it.

Is that Multiculturalism?

What did I accuse you of: And you believe that there is some distinction between that and " force their participation into the national culture." There is no distinction.You also claimed to have used the word "encouraged" in this context. Where was that?When are you going to get around to telling us what behaviors constitute multi-culturalism policy?Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

OK, so my original comment stands. As the West has grown more multicultural it has also culturally grown more tolerant of 'others'.I don't care if the Constitution technically meant black men should be considered equal, or what the high-minded ideals of the people involved in its construction - the fact is that when it was first put into practice only 10-20% of people could even vote and they were all white, affluent, male land-owners.Culture is what the people do, and the culture has grown more tolerant in recent history. Perhaps you'd like to be specific? I don't live in the USA remember, don't take for granted that I just 'know' this is happening. I didn't suggest otherwise. Nonsense, it happens all the time, it almost HAS to happen. We just don't tell them it was John Stuart Mill that gave us the jargon with which to discuss it in detail or whatever."If you bite your sister it makes her hurt and get sad, and that makes me upset. Do you want to hurt people and make your family sad?"Might be an angle of attack a parent might try - it's consequentialism. They might try"Brothers must look after their sisters. Hurting your sister makes you a bad brother. You don't want to be a bad brother do you?"Which could be argued as deontology.

So a city-state couldn't do this?
Or a town council?
Or a corporate entity?
Or a school?Or an Empire? Or a tribe? Or a Band?Are only 'national' policies, policies? Should we just ignore local cultural ideas on land ownership and impose our own in the name of...monoculturalism?Incidentally, the Spanish did adopt some cultural ideas such as Mit'a, but then it was cheaper than importing slaves so maybe it's a bit premature to consider it a high-minded melting pot notion.

I think the point I was trying to make is that cultures differ in their values. As an example, Minnesota recently passed laws that recognize homosexual marriages as legal. This was mainly an accomplishment of the majority culture.But our state also has an increasing Muslim population. Their views on homosexuality are right of most U.S. conservatives.As the numbers of such immigrants increase, their power to undo advancements in the recognition of human rights through voting and/or lobbying also increases.I think it is valid to ask ourselves if we want to look the other way in the spirit of Multiculturalism at the risk of having our own cultural achievements (which we recognize as good and necessary) rolled back.This is the topic of a blog post I linked to earlier: Is Canada Importing Patriarchy?Our societies need to address this. Multiculturalism may have benefits, but it has side effects too. Of course. But I have told you of my experiences in schools. There is so much variety in the U.S. public school system that it would simply be dishonest of me to talk about what other schools are doing without having experienced it or researching it in detail. And it is not usually possible to do the research. How can I find out what discipline standards a school uses in a different district? I could look it up on their website; maybe it's posted, but it likely isn't. And that would have to be done for every school.Can I figure out which concessions other schools make for cultural differences? Again, the process would be quite difficult.And that is sort of what you get with a public school system that has little cohesion and few clearly-defined standards.If all you want is more examples from my own experience working in a single district (but different schools), I can give you some more. Okay. If that's what you meant with 'teaching fundamental western ethical philosophies', then I can see potential for it. These approaches, though, are largely on an individual basis when it comes to raising children. If they don't work, then there is actual discipline involved. A parent might apply discipline unequally, but in a school there is usually a standard set of procedures for handling unacceptable behavior.Note that what is considered acceptable is determined by cultural norms.