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Author Topic:   What to say if you met God/god/Gods/gods
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4642
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 76 of 114 (766421)
08-18-2015 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Phat
08-18-2015 1:58 AM


Re: Competition
Phat writes:

It seems to me that humans are solely responsible for this nature.

Oh Phat. Humans are late comers, we've only been around for about 200,000 years. Life on earth has been competitive since it began. Big things eat smaller things to survive. Billions of years of evolution have made life competitive - if 'God did it', he made carnivores which can only survive by killing other animals. Many species co-operate to kill, including Homo.

Life is designed to be competitive, it didn't need to be that way. Your God could have done it differently, why did he choose not to?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 08-18-2015 1:58 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 11:19 AM Tangle has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11348
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 77 of 114 (766429)
08-18-2015 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
08-18-2015 2:02 AM


Re: Worthship
It seems to me that by nature humans usually celebrate(worship) themselves.

Given all the independent religions that have sprung up, it should also seem to you that by nature humans usually worship others too.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 08-18-2015 2:02 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5577
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 78 of 114 (766430)
08-18-2015 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Tangle
08-18-2015 3:44 AM


Re: Competition
Hi Tangle

tangel writes:

Life is designed to be competitive, it didn't need to be that way. Your God could have done it differently, why did he choose not to?

He did create it differently.
All animals and mankind was originally vegetarians.
Sorry to disappoint you.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2015 3:44 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2015 1:41 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 80 by ringo, posted 08-19-2015 3:27 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4642
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 79 of 114 (766462)
08-18-2015 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ICANT
08-18-2015 11:19 AM


Re: Competition
ICANT writes:


All animals and mankind was originally vegetarians.

Evidence please.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 11:19 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13025
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 80 of 114 (766601)
08-19-2015 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ICANT
08-18-2015 11:19 AM


Re: Competition
ICANT writes:

All animals and mankind was originally vegetarians.


If I met God I'd ask him about the mechanism that caused Eve eating a mango to change the lion's teeth and digestive system.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 11:19 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15929
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 81 of 114 (766606)
08-19-2015 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by foreveryoung
07-24-2015 10:56 AM


Nope. You assume too much. He hates it but allows it and does not intervene.

Very well, if you insist, let me rephrase that: God would be unhappy however things turned out, but apparently he is less unhappy at having people worship false gods than he would be at demonstrating his truth in the way that he does continually throughout the Bible.

This world would turn upside done with incontrovertibls evidence of his existence. Mass genocide comes to mind.

Maybe while he was giving incontrovertible evidence of his existence he could also give incontrovertible proof that he disapproves of genocide?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by foreveryoung, posted 07-24-2015 10:56 AM foreveryoung has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 82 of 114 (797476)
01-22-2017 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
02-08-2015 1:31 PM


Rationale
ringo writes:

The concept of gods is irrational to begin with, whether they exist or not.

I would imagine that IF GOD existed, He would have created and thus defined the very definition of rationality...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 02-08-2015 1:31 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 11:11 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 83 of 114 (797477)
01-22-2017 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
07-23-2015 1:18 PM


Trump Card
Would you vote for a politician who acted (or failed to act) like God?
Introducing Mr. Donald Trump. Ask me whether or not he attempted to act godlike in 3 years.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 07-23-2015 1:18 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 11:13 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13025
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 84 of 114 (797521)
01-23-2017 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Phat
01-22-2017 1:17 AM


Re: Rationale
Phat writes:

I would imagine that IF GOD existed, He would have created and thus defined the very definition of rationality...


No. If any gods existed they would not get to define rationality. It is what it is.

Why do believers insist on redefining rationality, love, etc. to include God? Why not just concede that gods are irrational and hateful and insist that they're still worth following?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 01-22-2017 1:17 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 02-28-2017 5:55 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13025
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 85 of 114 (797522)
01-23-2017 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Phat
01-22-2017 1:20 AM


Re: Trump Card
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Would you vote for a politician who acted (or failed to act) like God?


Introducing Mr. Donald Trump. Ask me whether or not he attempted to act godlike in 3 years.

I asked if you would vote for him.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Phat, posted 01-22-2017 1:20 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 01-23-2017 4:03 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 86 of 114 (797537)
01-23-2017 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
01-23-2017 11:13 AM


Re: Trump Card
I never did. Personally, I liked Sanders. Evidently enough people did vote for trump. I wonder if they expect godlike behavior out of him?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 11:13 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 01-24-2017 7:46 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 10:40 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28838
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 87 of 114 (797578)
01-24-2017 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
01-23-2017 4:03 PM


Re: Trump Card
Phat writes:

I wonder if they expect godlike behavior out of him?

Do you mean that Trump might cause a host of plagues just to prove who has the bigger dick or turn people into stone for simply looking over their shoulder or cheat in a trial of strength or lie about what will happen or kill innocent babies or wipe out all life on Earth or other God like behaviors then I hope not but it is certainly possible.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 01-23-2017 4:03 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13025
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 88 of 114 (797592)
01-24-2017 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
01-23-2017 4:03 PM


Re: Trump Card
Phat writes:

I wonder if they expect godlike behavior out of him?


I think they expect miracles.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 01-23-2017 4:03 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 89 of 114 (800782)
02-28-2017 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by ringo
01-23-2017 11:11 AM


Re: Rationale
ringo writes:

Why do believers insist on redefining rationality, love, etc. to include God? Why not just concede that gods are irrational and hateful and insist that they're still worth following?

Because that would be making humans equal to or greater than God. What you can't seem to grasp is that God by definition does get to define rationality, logic, reason, and reality itself. Now...to be fair, I won't make the same mistake that Dawn Bertot makes and speak on Gods behalf. What I will assert, however, is that humans don't have the ability to define God except as a lesser Being than themselves. My point (and counter assertion) is that God by definition is a greater Being than humans can (nevermind will) define.

I will agree that many gods are made up and are in fact hateful, prideful, jealous, and petty. I will even cautiously agree that I can only "make up" what I believe God to be. My point is that GOD (The One who actually exists) is bigger than yours or my ability to define or to describe. You as an atheist are free, of course, to choose to deny that such a God exists.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by ringo, posted 01-23-2017 11:11 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by jar, posted 02-28-2017 6:27 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 02-28-2017 11:39 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28838
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 90 of 114 (800784)
02-28-2017 6:27 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Phat
02-28-2017 5:55 AM


Re: Rationale
Phat writes:

What you can't seem to grasp is that God by definition does get to define rationality, logic, reason, and reality itself.

What you can't seem to grasp is that the Tyrant by definition does get to define rationality, logic, reason, and reality itself.

AbE:

Phat writes:

My point is that GOD (The One who actually exists) is bigger than yours or my ability to define or to describe.

My point is that GOD (The One who actually exists) is different than yours or my ability to define or to describe.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Phat, posted 02-28-2017 5:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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