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Author Topic:   Creation
jar
Member
Posts: 30707
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 481 of 919 (827990)
02-07-2018 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 480 by NoNukes
02-07-2018 8:54 AM


Re: Creation
Not to mention the fact that a Prophet that prophesies what already happened is pretty much worthless. So is a Prophet that prophesies stuff that will not happen for thousands of years in the future.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by NoNukes, posted 02-07-2018 8:54 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 482 of 919 (828002)
02-07-2018 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 480 by NoNukes
02-07-2018 8:54 AM


Re: Creation
Hi NoNukes,

NoNukes writes:

Hilarious. ICANT, you have zero credibility here. This entire thread is full of instances of you being wrong about assorted topics.

I am going to take that as a complement.

When I post something that a person does not even try to refute but instead attacks me personally I get the idea that I have touched a nerve somewhere. Otherwise they would try to discredit the message rather than the messenger.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate all the instances where I have been wrong and you pointed me to the correct thinking.

You do know that is called the process of learning.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 480 by NoNukes, posted 02-07-2018 8:54 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by NoNukes, posted 02-07-2018 1:15 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply
 Message 486 by ringo, posted 02-07-2018 2:55 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10865
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 483 of 919 (828011)
02-07-2018 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by ICANT
02-07-2018 11:40 AM


Re: Creation
When I post something that a person does not even try to refute but instead attacks me personally I get the idea that I have touched a nerve somewhere. Otherwise they would try to discredit the message rather than the messenger.

Except that you did not actually make an argument. You just claimed that your statements were fact as though we should rely on your expertise and reputation. Well, you don't have a reputation for truth-telling or getting facts correct. I think pointing to the record is exactly the right way to show that.

But hey, validate yourself bro.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2018 11:40 AM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
Aussie
Member
Posts: 178
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 484 of 919 (828013)
02-07-2018 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by ICANT
02-02-2018 5:01 PM


Re: days and dates
My argument then and now is that there was no such thing as a noun in Moses days.

It was whatever they called them.

God Bless,

I have just lost every shred of intellectual respect I may have had for you. And I've been reading you for years. You are beyond absurd and I feel bad for the ones gullible enough to follow your "Teaching" and take it seriously.

Really ICANT!!! So my mother-in law in Sevilla, Spain doesn't have a car because she doesn't speak English? She drives almost every day in what she refers to as "el coche," but are you really going to stand there with a straight face and tell me she doesn't have a car because she doesn't speak English? And tell me Moses didn't have nouns because he didn't speak English?

This is beyond shameful if you are pretending to be this stupid, and well, it's a shame if you aren't come to think of it.

Never mind.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2018 5:01 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 487 by Stile, posted 02-07-2018 3:09 PM Aussie has not yet responded
 Message 496 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:35 AM Aussie has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 485 of 919 (828018)
02-07-2018 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 476 by ICANT
02-06-2018 2:54 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

The spaces in the picture of the Dead Sea Scrolls was not invented by the Masoretes, as it was text that had no vowels, accents, or punctuation.


You're missing the point. The point is that you've given no reason to conclude that the space indicates a change in point of view. It can but it doesn't have to. Jeremiah is clearly telling one story about one event, in the future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 476 by ICANT, posted 02-06-2018 2:54 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 486 of 919 (828019)
02-07-2018 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by ICANT
02-07-2018 11:40 AM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:

Otherwise they would try to discredit the message rather than the messenger.


You have it backwards. The messenger (you) has no credibility because his messages have been discredited so often in the past. You're like the boy who cried, "Wolf!"

It's unfortunate, because if there ever is a wolf - i.e if you ever do say anything that's true - we're unlikely to believe it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2018 11:40 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3223
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 487 of 919 (828020)
02-07-2018 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 484 by Aussie
02-07-2018 2:02 PM


Re: days and dates
Aussie writes:

I have just lost every shred of intellectual respect I may have had for you. And I've been reading you for years. You are beyond absurd and I feel bad for the ones gullible enough to follow your "Teaching" and take it seriously.

I think this is very correct.
But I wouldn't worry... I don't think many are following such teachings.

Really ICANT!!! So my mother-in law in Sevilla, Spain doesn't have a car because she doesn't speak English? She drives almost every day in what she refers to as "el coche," but are you really going to stand there with a straight face and tell me she doesn't have a car because she doesn't speak English? And tell me Moses didn't have nouns because he didn't speak English?

Although I find the first quote to be spot-on... I think ICANT is making a slightly-different absurd error than the one you're complaining about.

ICANT doesn't seem to be saying Moses didn't have nouns because the English word doesn't exist.
(Well, maybe he did at some point, but I don't think he's saying that here and now. ICANT says a lot of really foolish things.)
I think ICANT is saying Moses didn't have nouns because the concept of noun didn't exist in any language.

Which, really, is just as absurd.. but only in a slightly different way.

You can take it as strictly literal... that Moses didn't have the word "noun" before the word "noun" existed... but ICANT is aware Moses used some sort of concept of the same idea.
...but this doesn't make any sense. Why say anything at all, then, if this is what someone thinks?

More likely it's like saying no one counted anything before the Arabic(?) invented the idea of numbers.

It's silly.

The Arabic may very well have formalized the idea of numbers at some point... but before that, people still counted things. They just didn't have a formal standard (in any language) to draw from. But you don't need a formal number structure to know that 2 goats are not the same as 3 goats in a trade occurring right in front of you. It's still obvious that the different groups aren't "equal" and which one is "lesser." And this is known by some intuitive idea of "counting" regardless of it being formalized.

The idea of "a noun" may not have been formalized in any language during the time of Moses.
But if he was writing... he certainly did use nouns. He just wouldn't have been aware there was a specific name for the idea. Or maybe he was aware, and the idea simply didn't end up getting formalized until many ages later for whatever reason.

Never mind.

Is really the only reasonable response

Also, this post is entirely unnecessary and I'm just bored. So there.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by Aussie, posted 02-07-2018 2:02 PM Aussie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 491 by NoNukes, posted 02-08-2018 1:38 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 488 of 919 (828021)
02-07-2018 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by Phat
02-04-2018 9:33 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi Phat,

Phat writes:

This source differs.

Naturally he would disagree as he does not believe the Bible is the inerrant and infallible Word of God.

Phat writes:

Because much of it makes the science out to be a complete fabrication. Which flies in the face of reality.

How can that be when Science is simply trying to figure out how God did it.

The Bible is reality.

What you understand the Bible teaches is probably what is wrong, not what is actually recorded in the Bible. You have listened to too many YEC'S, and others here.

The Bible in no place teaches that the earth is 6,000+ years old.
That age is determined by doing the math to connect the generations of people who have lived on earth back to the mankind that was created in the image and likeness of God in Genesis 1:27. But that is not the beginning as it took place in Genesis 1:1.

According to Genesis 2:4 the things recorded in the following verses took place in the same day God created the heavens and the earth.
During that light period there were at least 7 generations of people that were descended from the man formed from the dust of the ground and the woman cloned from a rib from the man. There had been at least one city built during that same light period.

How long was that light period? I don't know.
What I do know is that it started at the beginning and did not cease to exist until God created darkness.

quote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

That period of light in which the entire universe was lit as our noonday earth would account for the cmbr which it thought to be evidence for the BBT. When all it proves is that the universe was bathed in light in the beginning.

So that is two points that the Bible and Science agrees.
Both teach the universe is old.
Both teach the universe was immersed in light in the beginning.

I also believe that light period in which God's creation took place is where the material was produced and buried in the earth to produce all the natural gas, petroleum, and coal we find in the earth.

Maybe some day somebody in science will give me the scientific mechanism in which the material was produced and buried under 5 miles of sediment in places.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Phat, posted 02-04-2018 9:33 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by ringo, posted 02-07-2018 3:48 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 490 by jar, posted 02-07-2018 6:50 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 489 of 919 (828022)
02-07-2018 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 488 by ICANT
02-07-2018 3:42 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:

Naturally he would disagree as he does not believe the Bible is the inerrant and infallible Word of God.


How does one conclude that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 488 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2018 3:42 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 494 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:19 AM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30707
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 490 of 919 (828030)
02-07-2018 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 488 by ICANT
02-07-2018 3:42 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:

How can that be when Science is simply trying to figure out how God did it.

That is yet another utterly dishonest statement from you that seems to have no purpose other than making Christians look stupid.

ICANT writes:

The Bible is reality.

Whoops, I was wrong. You have more statements that seem to have no purpose other than making Christian look stupid. You even have statement making Christians look like really stupid liars.

The fact is that there is not even some unique thing that is "The Bible" but rather a broad range of different things containing different content that are all called "Bibles".

And top top it off you go on to puts lots more utter bullshit and absurdities and have the cajones to claim you are talking about reality.

Sheesh!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 488 by ICANT, posted 02-07-2018 3:42 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10865
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 491 of 919 (828035)
02-08-2018 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 487 by Stile
02-07-2018 3:09 PM


Re: days and dates
I think ICANT is saying Moses didn't have nouns because the concept of noun didn't exist in any language.

ICANT said that he had tried to find out what Moses called those things he used to refer to a person, place or thing, but the terminology had not surfaced in his research. ICANT acknowledges that Moses did use words for that purpose.

Maybe that makes some kind of sense to someone, but I think Aussie's comments describe ICANT's position quite well.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 487 by Stile, posted 02-07-2018 3:09 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

    
AlexCaledin
Member (Idle past 61 days)
Posts: 41
From: Samara, Russia
Joined: 10-22-2016


Message 492 of 919 (828058)
02-08-2018 8:36 PM


Moses simply says what God did and observed via the Creator's own interface. The simple biblical words denote God's days, acts and things in God's creative laboratory, way beyond the human science. Compared to those things, our "material", "carnal" reality (after the Curse in Ch.3) is a mere temporary simulation (with the purpose of our debugging) - it's deceptive, as the Bible warns.
Replies to this message:
 Message 493 by NoNukes, posted 02-08-2018 8:38 PM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10865
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 493 of 919 (828059)
02-08-2018 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 492 by AlexCaledin
02-08-2018 8:36 PM


The simple biblical words denote God's days, acts and things in God's creative laboratory, way beyond the human science. Compared to those things, our "material", "carnal" reality (after the Curse in Ch.3) is a mere temporary simulation (with the purpose of our debugging)

That's awfully helpful Alex.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by AlexCaledin, posted 02-08-2018 8:36 PM AlexCaledin has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5878
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 494 of 919 (828065)
02-09-2018 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 489 by ringo
02-07-2018 3:48 PM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

How does one conclude that the Bible is the inerrant and infallible word of God?

It helps to know the source in a personal relationship.
Without that it is impossible to understand God's Word.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 489 by ringo, posted 02-07-2018 3:48 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 495 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 11:24 AM ICANT has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 495 of 919 (828066)
02-09-2018 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 494 by ICANT
02-09-2018 11:19 AM


Re: Why NOT A Literal Bible?
ICANT writes:

It helps to know the source in a personal relationship.
Without that it is impossible to understand God's Word.


That happens a lot on the Internet. People develop a "personal relationship" with somebody who turns out to be completely different from the way they portray themselves.

So how do you know you can trust the source?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 11:19 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by ICANT, posted 02-09-2018 12:18 PM ringo has responded

  
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