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Author Topic:   The Disgusting Berkeley Riots
RAZD
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Posts: 18472
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 16 of 275 (798537)
02-03-2017 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
02-02-2017 10:09 PM


One report I heard described a peaceful protest that was then
infiltrated by over a hundred out-of-town "agitators."

A common tactic to discredit peaceful protests. It only takes a handful and the media is all over it like the hairpiece on Trumps head. The news cycles show the violence and not the peaceful protests.

There are groups that admit to doing this because either (a) they don't think peaceful protest will work and isn't powerful enough of a message, or (b) because they want to break things and blame someone else.

They cancelled the speaker. Clearly the violence was aimed at shutting people up they disagree with. I guess this is the "Anti Free Speech Movement" in contrast to the 60s protests.

They cancelled the speech to prevent violence. Sadly that didn't work.

A better protest would have been to buy up all the tickets and leave the auditorium empty. It's been done.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 02-02-2017 10:09 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:38 AM RAZD has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 275 (798540)
02-03-2017 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by NoNukes
02-03-2017 5:40 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
Oh, fun! Ah yes, yes indeedy, this topic pulled out a true wacko lefty response, as I thought it probably would.

I'm on board with the idea that riots and violence are bad. I don't condone them.

Perhaps you could venture a thought about how so many of the anti-Trump "protests" have in fact become violent?

But Coyote specifically and directly, and perhaps Faith more indirectly seems to be suggesting that some "opposition" speech was missed that ought to have been heard.

this has me blinking wildly. What on earth can you mean? Milo Yiannopoulos was invited by the university to give a talk. People had come to hear him. Is there some special justification needed that he had a "right to be heard?"

Such a strange opinion suggests that "some" people really don't deserve free speech? Such as people who disagree with the darling opinions of the Left? Well, at least UC Berkeley had the guts to invite him in spite of such a perfectly righteously properly Constitutional opinion as that people who share his views should be hit over the head and thrown to the ground and stomped on.
(

I am really curious about what it is the Milo Yiannopoulos has to say that we all missed the opportunity to hear.

Since when does someone's free speech depend on anyone's having an opportunity to hear it? Which is what you seem to be implying. You mean if what he has to say isn't something you find to your liking we should consider that there's no loss if the opportunity is missed? What about those who came to hear him? They don't matter I suppose. That wouldn't be any surprise, since nobody's opinion but their own matters to the anti-Trumpers.

I ask that question because history does not allow me to accept without question purity of motives. If anyone wants me to cite some history, I'd be happy to oblige.

Eh? Now you seem to have lurched from a suspiciously fascistic suggestion that perhaps "some" people, even some invited to speak on a college campus, really should be denied the right, from that position, I say, to this utterly incomprehensible non sequitur about "purity of motives." Excuse me? WHOSE "purity of motives" are you talking about, and what does history have to do with it? The only relevant history I can think of offhand, to what you have been suggesting so far, might be the Nazis' suppression of the rights of their citizens to speak a political opinion in someone's hearing. Yes, the Nazis do seem to keep coming up in this context. Hard to find a more appropriate analogy to violent attempts to shut someone up.

I'm also amused at the very low level of action that is required to draw folks to call other folks Nazi's.

Eh? Violent attacks intended to silence a political opinion are a "low level" action that shouldn't be compared to the Nazis, cuz why? Again it's a rather apt comparison it seems to me. Perhaps you have another word for it? How about Stalinism? Maoism?

Apparently promoting ideas regarding white supremacy does not invoke such ideas, while protesting against the promotion of those ideas is right up there with operating ovens for humans.

I see. Yes, just accuse him of "white supremacy" and there you have your clever Lefty propaganda to turn HIM into a Nazi. Oh, and yes, call a violent riot a "protest." (You don't REALLY think "riots are bad" as your title claims, it depends on who's being beaten bloody, right?) Ah yes. The Left knows how to sling the lies to make an honest conservative into a Nazi. But we can't call the violent protest intended to suppress him what it is, fascism.

I never heard of Milo Yiannopoulous before this incident. What I've found out about him is that he's a nicelooking blond gay man who is an editor for Breitbart, considers himself to be a libertarian, identifies with his Jewish grandmother, has a reputation for being funny, and says he's often enjoyed lampooning white supremacists.

He's even had to take legal action against the liars who call him a white supremacist, such as Glamour magazine. Does it ever occur to you that these accusations that are so freely slung by the Left at Trump and Trump supporters and conservatives and libertarians, are being invented by some Leftists somewhere off the radar and flung into the public arena for political purposes? They are lies, there are lots of them out there. Or call it "fake news." Very reminiscent of fascism.

I'm also amused by the association of Berkeley Republicans with this crackpot

Amused? Crackpot?

In short. I smell hypocrisy this morning, and the smell is not coming entirely from the west coast.

Hypocrisy? Ah another good PC slur. Me on the other hand, I smell Leftist fascism.

Just for reference here's this "white supremacist crackpot" giving a talk he was able to give in Colorado despite protests there too. Here's your opportunity to hear what he had to say, since you expressed curiosity about that.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 275 (798541)
02-03-2017 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
02-03-2017 9:24 AM


Could have been the work of "outside agitators." Perhaps there will be some information coming about that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2017 9:24 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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vimesey
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Posts: 848
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


(4)
Message 19 of 275 (798544)
02-03-2017 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
02-03-2017 9:34 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
Violent attacks intended to silence a political opinion are a "low level" action that shouldn't be compared to the Nazis, cuz why?

Because the defining characteristic of Nazis - the evil that we most associate with them - is the horrifying and systematic murder on an industrial scale of 6 million innocent Jewish/gay/disabled/Romany people. That's Nazism to most people.

Of course they suppressed free speech and did numerous other immoral things, but the reason they have rightly acquired such a universal hatred as recent history's most evil group is the deliberate and systematic genocide of 6m people.

They were the police - the army - the entire apparatus of state - there was no-one to turn to when they came for you to send you off to the gas chambers. The despair and misery they caused is unfathomable

That is what a Nazi is. Every time you equate someone who does something far less wrong, with a Nazi, you normalise that little bit more what the Nazis did.

There is a very genuine debate to be had about what the rioters did, and the extent of free speech. But leave the Nazis out of it - it leaves you and Coyote with a severe credibility issue - and is insulting to the memories of those 6m and the unimaginable horror they suffered.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:34 AM Faith has responded

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18472
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 20 of 275 (798545)
02-03-2017 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
02-03-2017 9:38 AM


anarchists and agent provocateurs
Could have been the work of "outside agitators." Perhaps there will be some information coming about that.

Ever since the 60's it is well known that police and FBI infiltrate groups and foment violence. The worked to discredit MLK and other rights leaders running peaceful non-violent protests. Several have been identified as recently as the Occupy movement.

... Perhaps there will be some information coming about that.

quote:
Anarchists Respond to Trump’s nauguration, by Any Means Necessary

In Berkeley, Calif., on Wednesday night, masked protesters set fires, smashed windows and stormed buildings on the campus of the University of California to shut down a speech by Milo Yiannopoulos, an inflammatory Breitbart News editor and a right-wing provocateur already barred from Twitter. Five people were injured, administrators canceled the event, and the university police locked down the campus for hours.

That followed a bloody melee in Seattle on Inauguration Day, Jan. 20, when black-clad demonstrators — their faces concealed to minimize the risk of arrest — tried to prevent a speech by Mr. Yiannopoulos at the University of Washington, and a 34-year-old anti-fascist was shot and seriously wounded by a supporter of Mr. Yiannopoulos.

The outbreaks of destruction and violence since Mr. Trump’s inauguration have earned contempt from Republicans — including Trump supporters who say it is exactly why they voted for his promises of law and order — and condemnation from Democrats like Berkeley’s mayor, Jesse Arreguín. He called Wednesday’s display “contrary to progressive values” and said it “provided the ultranationalist far right exactly the images they want” to try to discredit peaceful protesters of Mr. Trump’s policies.

But anarchists and anti-fascists, who often make up a small but disproportionately attention-getting portion of protesters, defend the mayhem they create as a necessary response to an emergency.

“Yes, what the black bloc did last night was destructive to property,” Eric Laursen, a writer in Massachusetts who has helped publicize anarchist protests, said, using another name for the black-clad demonstrators. “But do you just let someone like Milo go wherever he wants and spread his hate? That kind of argument can devolve into ‘just sit on your hands and wait for it to pass.’ And it doesn’t.”

Anarchists also say their recent efforts have been wildly successful, both by focusing attention on their most urgent argument — that Mr. Trump poses a fascist threat — and by enticing others to join their movement.

“The number of people who have been showing up to meetings, the number of meetings, and the number of already-evolving plans for future actions is through the roof,” Legba Carrefour, who helped organize the so-called Disrupt J20 protests on Inauguration Day in Washington, said in an interview.

“Gained 1,000 followers in the last week,” trumpeted @NYCAntifa, an anti-fascist Twitter account in New York, on Jan. 24. “Pretty crazy for us as we’ve been active for many years with minimal attention. SMASH FASCISM!”

The movement even claims to be finding adherents far afield of major population centers. A participant in CrimethInc, a decades-old anarchist network, pointed to rising attendance at its meetings and activity cropping up in new places like Omaha.

“The Left ignores us. The Right demonizes us,” the anarchist website It’s Going Down boasted on Twitter. “Everyday we grow stronger.”

Anarchists came to the fore in 1999, when they mounted a huge demonstration in Seattle against the World Trade Organization, which they denounce — along with Nafta and other free-trade pacts — as a plutocratic back-room group that exploits the poor. Enthusiasm for the movement dipped after the election of President Barack Obama. But it revived as they played a role in some of the most consequential protests during his two terms, starting Occupy Wall Street and serving as foot soldiers in demonstrations against the Dakota Access Pipeline at Standing Rock in North Dakota and in Black Lives Matter protests in Ferguson, Mo., and elsewhere.

“We’ve had an enormous cultural and political impact,” said David Graeber, a professor at the London School of Economics who helped organize the Occupy protests and has been credited with coining its “we are the 99 percent” slogan. He said the movement had elevated income inequality to the top of the Democratic political agenda, despite not electing anyone or enacting any legislation.

But he said Mr. Trump’s victory had proved that anarchists’ diagnosis of society’s ills was correct.


That red symbol being spraypainted is the symbol for anarchists. See their facebook page

So we can thank Trump for inspiring more people to turn to the dark side.

... Perhaps there will be some information coming about that.

Actually peaceful non-violent protesters do not condone the anarchy group/s in any way shape or form, because the ruin the value of the peaceful non-violent protests by distracting people/media/etc away from the issue of the protest to make it about violence.

quote:
Attention Protesters: That Over-Zealous Agitator Might Be A Cop (VIDEO)

Since gathering in groups to use our right to free speech is perfectly legal, why do police infiltrate protest movements with undercover cops? Why not simply police these events in uniform?

Maybe it’s because police officers — or at least their police chiefs — are inclined to destroy all protest movements, no matter how peaceful or just they are. Seen through that lens, undercover cops are just another tool — along with police departments’ assault weapons, body armor, and SWAT vehicles — to force our compliance.

Alas, for some folks, all demands for justice pose a threat, whether you’re from No KXL or from Al Qaeda. No wonder police approach the Occupy and #BlackLivesMatter movements the same way they approach crime rings and terrorist cells: With bullets, tear gas, and infiltration by undercover cops.

How can undercover cops destroy a protest movement? In an entry on agent provocateurs, Wikipedia explains that options for these cops include: causing drama to sow discord, inciting protesters to acts that are violent and/or not legal (though framing them or setting them up works just as well), and publicly sharing information in a way that makes a protest movement look less credible.

So how did Garrett figure out which so-called “protester” was the undercover cop? Oh, he was the one slamming a fellow protester into a wall.

“He arrested one of the protestors outside, and slammed her into the wall, and pushed her back into the bank. We all saw him at the precinct with us. He was laughing with the fellow white shirt cops, telling them about what we’d been saying.”

Sadly.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : added


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:38 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 12:26 PM RAZD has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 21 of 275 (798549)
02-03-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by vimesey
02-03-2017 10:13 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
Violent attacks intended to silence a political opinion are a "low level" action that shouldn't be compared to the Nazis, cuz why?

Because the defining characteristic of Nazis - the evil that we most associate with them - is the horrifying and systematic murder on an industrial scale of 6 million innocent Jewish/gay/disabled/Romany people. That's Nazism to most people.

Yes, well my preferred term is "fascist" rather than Nazi although I think Nazi applies well enough, as I explained.

Of course they suppressed free speech and did numerous other immoral things, but the reason they have rightly acquired such a universal hatred as recent history's most evil group is the deliberate and systematic genocide of 6m people.

Eleven million. Six million Jews and the rest were Slavs, Communists, Christians and the like.

They were the police - the army - the entire apparatus of state - there was no-one to turn to when they came for you to send you off to the gas chambers. The despair and misery they caused is unfathomable.

That is what a Nazi is. Every time you equate someone who does something far less wrong, with a Nazi, you normalise that little bit more what the Nazis did.

LET ME POINT OUT that it is the Left calling Trump supporters by such names that has launched this whole line of thought. We are answering because we are not the Nazis, THEY ARE. That is one thing Milo mentions in his talk, that we are being called fascists when we are not acting anything like fascists but they are. Their expressed opinions are fascist -- shutting us up is what they want to do. An amazing number of MAINTSTREAM commentators actually have called for Trump to be assassinated. Blowing up the white house is a fantasy of Madonna's. Listen to them. IN A SANE WORLD NOT DOMINATED BY BIASED LEFTIST LYING MEDIA THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED TREASON AND SHE WOULD BE ARRESTED.

Their opinions are all fascist, anti-free speech, anti-Constitutional freedoms, but they justify them on their false claim that WE are the fascists. They think nothing of calling a conservative or liberatarian a "white supremacist" which is as good as calling us Nazis, which they do on other occasions anyway, and what does that do but whip up hatred against us?. Against US, who are NOT in any sense whatever Nazis, fascists, racists or white supremacists. Again, THEY ARE. That is how THEY are acting and they DO deserve these epithets.

You have to realize that it is quite possible for the Left to be the fascists. The distinguishing mark is NOT THE POLITICAL CONTENT, it's the violent suppressive attitude that even includes wanting to kill the opponent. The protests against Trump have pretty much all turned violent, and at least verbally accusatory and threatening FALSELY. I mentioned five documented incidents of violence by Trump haters on Trump supporters, and so far I haven 't seen one similar incident the other way around.; Leftists infiltrated Trump rallies and provoked violence. Trump supporters are not violent, they are the victims of the violence. And a lot of it is based completely on lies. There is not one racist plank in Trump's platform, there is no xenophobia, and he EXPLICITLY supported the LGBT cause, yet he and his supporters are called homophobes. The lying PROPAGANDA IS ALL ON THE LEFT AGAINST TRUMP SUPPORTERS AND SO IS THE VIOLENCE. Truth requires that the traditional definition of fascism be rethought.

AND, speaking of the police and the government as the fascist element, the police made no arrests from the violent riots at Berkeley. It is very possible for the LEFTIST establishment, which all of them in Berkeley are, to be the fascist force. And the medie wield incredible power with their biased reports that make us into the villains in the minds of the public. Calling us the fascists is a PROPAGANDA WEAPON. We are resisting while we still have the time to resist.

There is a very genuine debate to be had about what the rioters did, and the extent of free speech. But leave the Nazis out of it - it leaves you and Coyote with a severe credibility issue - and is insulting to the memories of those 6m and the unimaginable horror they suffered.

Sorry, even your reasonable opinion is being used on the wrong side of this argument. There are global level powers and government and police powers that are out to get conservatives, people who want national sovereignty and don't want to be run by leftist billionaires. The Jews are also being targeted AGAIN though, by THEM, not US. Israel is always the scapegoat while Islam which is a real threat to world peace is supported by the Left.

The views that would have applied fifty years ago don't always apply now. There are clever devils working feverishly to control the world and they don't care which political view has the upper hand, but right now they are pushing the Left.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by vimesey, posted 02-03-2017 10:13 AM vimesey has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 13026
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 22 of 275 (798550)
02-03-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
02-03-2017 11:09 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
Faith writes:

An amazing number of MAINTSTREAM commentators actually have called for Trump to be assassinated.


Huh? Evidence, please.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 11:09 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9313
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 23 of 275 (798552)
02-03-2017 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
02-03-2017 11:09 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
LET ME POINT OUT that it is the Left calling Trump supporters by such names that has launched this whole line of thought. We are answering because we are not the Nazis, THEY ARE...
Technically a far right ideology is nazi while a far left ideology is closer akin to communism/socialism. Don't let the "socialism" in national socialism fool you. The far left is more closely related to communism than to nationalism. Just sayin...

Personally, I think that either extreme can be dangerous. I am a political moderate myself.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

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Faith
Member
Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 275 (798556)
02-03-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by RAZD
02-03-2017 10:25 AM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
I don't really see much of this supposed condemnation of the violence from the Left, or from the media etc. The anarchists' views seem to be popular, even if the violence is tepidly decried.

We don't really hear much from the Left denouncing the violence of the protestors, decrying the violent speech of those who want Trump to be assassinated, the white house blown up etc., and it seems to me we often hear sympathy with the violent demonstrations instead, even characterizing Trump supporters more or less as deserving it, because after all we're evil just as the anarchists think we are.

What I posted about media characterizing Yiannopoulos as a white supremacist is the usual thing from the Left, and very very little objection to anything the Left does.

The anarchists should have been arrested. Why weren't they?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2017 10:25 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2017 1:33 PM Faith has responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7407
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 25 of 275 (798561)
02-03-2017 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coyote
02-02-2017 10:01 PM


That is clearly the intent--to shut Milo and all others like him down at all costs

Not at all costs, obviously. Otherwise they'd wait for him to get on stage and they'd shoot him or knife him, club him to death or something. Is the tactic they're employing actually going to be effective in the medium or long term? The brownshirts had hundreds of thousands of members into the millions before Hitler disbanded them. This membership was concentrated primarily to one particular area of Germany - it was high density.

They seem to have much fewer numbers, using much stupider methods (probably as there is no central organisation of politically canny ex-soldiers directing them) - can they really do anything other than raise tensions and validate their enemy's rhetoric?

After a series of riots, how many campus administrations will even entertain the thought of Milo or others like him speaking there?

If Trump defunds universities because crazies on the internet start violence at university protests - then I expect that'll be be a bigger deterrent than a minor riot. 100s of thousands in damages vs 100s of millions in federal funding. I know which one would be more important. So why would Universities take the risk of losing some or all of their funding if the President will essentially fine them if trouble breaks out.

That's the goal of the rioters--raw power through violence. If you can't see that it's your shortcoming, not mine.

Brownshirts are among us again. Read some history.

In fighting the presumed Nazis, the progs have become the Nazis all over again.

Yes you said that already. You didn't however, answer my questions raised when you said it last. Responding to arguments in political threads has never really been your style, so I shouldn't be surprised.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Coyote, posted 02-02-2017 10:01 PM Coyote has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18472
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 26 of 275 (798562)
02-03-2017 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
02-03-2017 12:26 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
I don't really see much of this supposed condemnation of the violence from the Left, or from the media etc. The anarchists' views seem to be popular, even if the violence is tepidly decried.

And you don't believe me when I say the media is biased against non-violent leftists and doesn't show them or talk about them, waiting for the violence to occur before they consider it "newsworthy" ...

One of the first protests I was involved in was a peaceful sit-in for minimum wages at the university to apply to the black housecleaners. The local news was called and informed, and they asked if there was any violence, no? let us know when there is and we'll send a camera around ...

We don't really hear much from the Left denouncing the violence of the protestors, decrying the violent speech of those who want Trump to be assassinated, the white house blown up etc., and it seems to me we often hear sympathy with the violent demonstrations instead, even characterizing Trump supporters more or less as deserving it, because after all we're evil just as the anarchists think we are.

Well you won't see it on Faux Noise Nutwerk or any other of your "newsy" sources, it doesn't fit their agenda.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 12:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 1:58 PM RAZD has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 24846
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 275 (798566)
02-03-2017 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by RAZD
02-03-2017 1:33 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
OK, I guess I missed your saying that the media is biased against non-violent Leftists. That's interesting if so, but then you'd think I'd hear about them from the conservative media I listen to most, and I don't. They could call into many conservative talk shows and protest the media bias against them. Conservatives would be happy to know this.

abe: OR, they could write their complaint all over the internet. I'd see it, the conservative internet would pick it up etc. Why isn't that happening? It tends to contradict your claim.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
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Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 28 of 275 (798576)
02-03-2017 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
02-03-2017 1:58 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
Why would leftists complain to conservative media?
The conservative media have no desire or incentive to report anything that would paint the left in a good light. Faux is a propaganda organ not a journalistic organization.

Edited by Theodoric, : dropped a t


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 1:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9550
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


(7)
Message 29 of 275 (798586)
02-03-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
02-03-2017 9:34 AM


Re: Riots are bad (but it depends on who's rioting).
I see. Yes, just accuse him of "white supremacy" and there you have your clever Lefty propaganda to turn HIM into a Nazi.

IBut I am well aware of the propaganda spread by Yiannopoulos. I note that your response to me about the content is just to provide a video without any summary. I am well aware of that he mouths hate speech. But apparently, that's cool with alt-right leaning folk.

Example stuff published under Milo's byline at Breitbart

quote:
“The solution to online 'harassment' is simple: Women should log off”
“Birth control makes women unattractive and crazy”
“Would you rather your child had feminism or cancer?”
“Gay rights have made us dumber, it's time to get back in the closet

Apparently, this kind of crap is what you consider "conservative". No Thanks.

The riots are giving Milo positive press he would never have gotten elsewhere. Beyond being wrong, the riots and destruction were a tactical error as well. However, attempts to blame the university are misguided. It might even be that the students themselves are not the ones who committed the unruly acts.

Eh? Now you seem to have lurched from a suspiciously fascistic suggestion that perhaps "some" people,

To be clear, my suspicion is about the motives of you and Coyote. And by when I mention "history" I am referring to folks posting history here. I apologize for my lack of directness, but I am trying to be less confrontational this year. I don't trust you to tell me why Milo should have been allowed to speak because I've never seen you stand up for anything but alt-right speech.

Eh? Violent attacks intended to silence a political opinion are a "low level" action that shouldn't be compared to the Nazis, cuz why?

Someone has already addressed this question, and I also addressed it in my post, so I'll be brief. Suppression of free speech is among the smaller things the Nazi's were guilty of. The Nazi's murdered 6 million jews and also millions of other people they considered undesirables. On their way to doing that, they scapegoated minorities for Germany's real problems in order to make it easier to exterminate folk. It would have been a bloody good idea for folks in Germany to have protested that kind of speech, but protesting did not win the day there. And then you turn around and accuse folks of being Nazi's for protesting hate speech?

Whether or not you agree with my description, surely you can see the irony in what I describe.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 9:34 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 6:47 PM NoNukes has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18472
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(5)
Message 30 of 275 (798600)
02-03-2017 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
02-03-2017 1:58 PM


Re: anarchists and agent provocateurs
OK, I guess I missed your saying that the media is biased against non-violent Leftists. ...

What did you see reported about the rallies that Bernie had?

I attended one in a park in downtown Providence RI and not a single TV station covered it.

OR, they could write their complaint all over the internet. ...

There are pictures on the internet, go look for Bernie Rally ...

... That's interesting if so, but then you'd think I'd hear about them from the conservative media I listen to most, and I don't. They could call into many conservative talk shows and protest the media bias against them. Conservatives would be happy to know this.

... I'd see it, the conservative internet would pick it up etc. Why isn't that happening? It tends to contradict your claim.

Or your assumption that conservative media would cover it is false. Why should they give you information that would let you know there were alternatives to the narrative they provide?

You appear to live in a conservative sanitized bubble faith, and you are told to distrust anything that might contradict the conservative narrative.

This is why I say your (conservative narrative) claim that the media is left biased is wrong, it is status quo corporatist biased, ignoring the far right and the progressive left.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 02-03-2017 1:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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